Attending: Franz Oeste, Robert Tulip, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Peter Wadhams, Shaun Fitzgerald, Sev Clarke, MannaJo (Clearwater), Grant Gower, Bob Fry, Sam Chaudhary, Bru Pearce, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman, John Nissen

Attending: Franz Oeste, Robert Tulip, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Peter Wadhams, Shaun Fitzgerald, Sev Clarke, MannaJo (Clearwater), Grant Gower, Bob Fry, Sam Chaudhary, Bru Pearce, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman, John Nissen

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Nissen, John Macdonald, Sev Clarke, Clive Elsworth, Brian Von Herzen, Shaun Fitzgerald, Hugh Hunt, Eduardo Greaves, Bru Pearce, Stephen Salter, Ron Baiman, Herb Simmens, Doug Grandt

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Nissen, John Macdonald, Sev Clarke, Clive Elsworth, Brian Von Herzen, Shaun Fitzgerald, Hugh Hunt, Eduardo Greaves, Bru Pearce, Stephen Salter, Ron Baiman, Herb Simmens, Doug Grandt

Agenda
CE "“ Discussion on Artic cloud formation
Grant "“ brief report on EHux project
John N "“ US short submission for 5 yr plan?
Sev - humidifying the air before seeding with CCN
Any updates / progress?
TOA "“ Titanium Oxide Aerosol "“ for refreezing the Arctic
ARA "“ Aqua Regia Aerosol "“ for cooling the oceans and depleting atmospheric methane at scale

Agenda
CE "“ Discussion on Artic cloud formation
Grant "“ brief report on EHux project
John N "“ US short submission for 5 yr plan?
Sev - humidifying the air before seeding with CCN
Any updates / progress?
TOA "“ Titanium Oxide Aerosol "“ for refreezing the Arctic
ARA "“ Aqua Regia Aerosol "“ for cooling the oceans and depleting atmospheric methane at scale

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Chris Vivian, Clive Elsworth, Shaun Fitzgerald, Sev Clarke, Bru Pearce, Brian Von Herzen, Will Smith, Elisabet Baltas, Katy

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Chris Vivian, Clive Elsworth, Shaun Fitzgerald, Sev Clarke, Bru Pearce, Brian Von Herzen, Will Smith, Elisabet Baltas, Katy

Agenda
Metta "“ Symposium - citizens assembly, global in scope, for discussing climate repair?
Sev "“ Is global evapotranspiration good?
John M "“ What are the sources of cloud formation?
Chat
20:12:11 From Jonathan Cole : What is a citizens"™ assembly?\rCitizens"™ assemblies are not new, and are gaining popularity around the world. They empower people, communities and entire countries to make important decisions in a fair and deeply democratic way.\r\rThe Citizens"™ Assembly on Climate and Ecological Justice will bring together a "mini public" of everyday people to investigate, discuss and make recommendations on how to respond to the climate emergency. These people will be randomly selected, like a jury, to reflect the whole country in terms of gender, age, ethnicity, education level and geography. They will hear balanced information from experts and those most affected by the emergency and then discuss what they have learned openly and honestly in small groups. Together they will work through their differences before drafting and voting on recommendations. The process is run by non-governmental organisations under independent oversight.\r20:16:35
From Jonathan Cole : ClimateViewer - YouTube\rWebJim is the creator of ClimateViewer Maps on http://climateviewer.org/, where you can monitor our world in real-time on a 3D globe with over 600 unique maps and live\r20:17:44
From Jonathan Cole : I am James Franklin Lee Jr. (Jim Lee) and I help people understand complex ideas by creating maps, timelines, articles, and lectures. I am going to talk about Pollution, Privacy and Propaganda every chance I get because they interest me, affect us, and I care about our Planet. ClimateViewer News is my blog and the central location for all of my research.\r20:25:40
From Jonathan Cole : This Jim Lee seems to be initiating the anti geoengineering push for a statement by the NH state legislature\r20:25:51
From Jonathan Cole : Last month, Republican legislators in New Hampshire introduced a bill that would ban the "intentional release" of chemicals into the air.\r\rThe legislation, called "The Clean Atmosphere Preservation Act," prohibits "the intentional release of polluting emissions, including cloud seeding, weather modification, excessive electromagnetic radio frequency, and microwave radiation and making penalties for violation of such prohibition."\r\rIt also provides penalties for violations.\r20:28:28
From Metta Spencer : Https://tosavetheworld.ca\r20:28:41 From Robert Chris : prohibits "the intentional release of polluting emissions, Doesn't that mea no more fossil fuel emissions?\r20:47:28
From Robert Chris : Kevin Anderson\r20:56:20
From Bruce Parker : NOAC Website https://myccnews.org/noac/\r20:57:46
From Jonathan Cole : Great statement: Choose something non controversial enough to get funding.

Agenda
Metta "“ Symposium - citizens assembly, global in scope, for discussing climate repair?
Sev "“ Is global evapotranspiration good?
John M "“ What are the sources of cloud formation?
Chat
20:12:11 From Jonathan Cole : What is a citizens"™ assembly?\rCitizens"™ assemblies are not new, and are gaining popularity around the world. They empower people, communities and entire countries to make important decisions in a fair and deeply democratic way.\r\rThe Citizens"™ Assembly on Climate and Ecological Justice will bring together a "mini public" of everyday people to investigate, discuss and make recommendations on how to respond to the climate emergency. These people will be randomly selected, like a jury, to reflect the whole country in terms of gender, age, ethnicity, education level and geography. They will hear balanced information from experts and those most affected by the emergency and then discuss what they have learned openly and honestly in small groups. Together they will work through their differences before drafting and voting on recommendations. The process is run by non-governmental organisations under independent oversight.\r20:16:35
From Jonathan Cole : ClimateViewer - YouTube\rWebJim is the creator of ClimateViewer Maps on http://climateviewer.org/, where you can monitor our world in real-time on a 3D globe with over 600 unique maps and live\r20:17:44
From Jonathan Cole : I am James Franklin Lee Jr. (Jim Lee) and I help people understand complex ideas by creating maps, timelines, articles, and lectures. I am going to talk about Pollution, Privacy and Propaganda every chance I get because they interest me, affect us, and I care about our Planet. ClimateViewer News is my blog and the central location for all of my research.\r20:25:40
From Jonathan Cole : This Jim Lee seems to be initiating the anti geoengineering push for a statement by the NH state legislature\r20:25:51
From Jonathan Cole : Last month, Republican legislators in New Hampshire introduced a bill that would ban the "intentional release" of chemicals into the air.\r\rThe legislation, called "The Clean Atmosphere Preservation Act," prohibits "the intentional release of polluting emissions, including cloud seeding, weather modification, excessive electromagnetic radio frequency, and microwave radiation and making penalties for violation of such prohibition."\r\rIt also provides penalties for violations.\r20:28:28
From Metta Spencer : Https://tosavetheworld.ca\r20:28:41 From Robert Chris : prohibits "the intentional release of polluting emissions, Doesn't that mea no more fossil fuel emissions?\r20:47:28
From Robert Chris : Kevin Anderson\r20:56:20
From Bruce Parker : NOAC Website https://myccnews.org/noac/\r20:57:46
From Jonathan Cole : Great statement: Choose something non controversial enough to get funding.

Attending: Sev Clarke, Franz Oeste, John MacDonald, Clive Elsworth, Ron Baiman, Bru Pearce, Rocio Herbert, Herb Simmens, Lynn Russell, Vyt Garnys, Brian von Herzen

Attending: Sev Clarke, Franz Oeste, John MacDonald, Clive Elsworth, Ron Baiman, Bru Pearce, Rocio Herbert, Herb Simmens, Lynn Russell, Vyt Garnys, Brian von Herzen

Attending: Franz Oeste, Robert Tulip, John MacDonald, Clive Elsworth, Stephen Salter, Peter Wadhams, Bru Pearce, Hugh Hunt, Dermott Reilly, Brian von Herzen, Sev Clarke, Ron Baiman, MannaJo, John Nissen

Attending: Franz Oeste, Robert Tulip, John MacDonald, Clive Elsworth, Stephen Salter, Peter Wadhams, Bru Pearce, Hugh Hunt, Dermott Reilly, Brian von Herzen, Sev Clarke, Ron Baiman, MannaJo, John Nissen

Agenda
Achim "“ Intro "“ Ocean cooling - woxon.com
Chris "“ urgency of cooling "“ articles in chat
Robert T "“ Letter published in The Australian newspaper "“ need for cooling and climate morality
Robert/John N - Cooling credits vs Carbon credits
Sev "“ Towards NOAC "“ consensus on what we think is important to communicate

Agenda
Achim "“ Intro "“ Ocean cooling - woxon.com
Chris "“ urgency of cooling "“ articles in chat
Robert T "“ Letter published in The Australian newspaper "“ need for cooling and climate morality
Robert/John N - Cooling credits vs Carbon credits
Sev "“ Towards NOAC "“ consensus on what we think is important to communicate

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Stephen Salter, John Nissen, Sev Clarke, MannaJo, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman, Brian Von Herzen, Bru Pearce, Grant Gower,

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Stephen Salter, John Nissen, Sev Clarke, MannaJo, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman, Brian Von Herzen, Bru Pearce, Grant Gower,

Agenda
Aaron "“ Greenland blowing up? Arctic conditions
JM "“ Predicted loss of clouds?
Sev "“ Separating humidity from nuclei
CE/Franz Nozzle design "“ Shaun?
Grant "“ Crack in conversation on emissions/CDR/SRM
RT "“ Pakistand Floods "“ S.Salter

Agenda
Aaron "“ Greenland blowing up? Arctic conditions
JM "“ Predicted loss of clouds?
Sev "“ Separating humidity from nuclei
CE/Franz Nozzle design "“ Shaun?
Grant "“ Crack in conversation on emissions/CDR/SRM
RT "“ Pakistand Floods "“ S.Salter

Attending: Franz Oeste, Robert Tulip, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Stephen Salter, Sev Clarke, Brian Von Herzen, Beth Taylor, Daniel Siromani, Anton Alferness,

Attending: Franz Oeste, Robert Tulip, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Stephen Salter, Sev Clarke, Brian Von Herzen, Beth Taylor, Daniel Siromani, Anton Alferness,

Agenda
Clive - the role of black carbon to Arctic warming by Arctic Haze, the additionally accelerated ice melt by its snow and ice discoloration, and its potential removal near its source with Iron Salt Aerosol
- the potential role of floating habitat and nutrition in the deep ocean to producing fast sinking organic and carbonate particles.
- Human waste from ships
- Do hygroscopic aerosols get rained out within days or weeks? And where?
Chris "“ AR6 synthesis report
Chat
21:38:06 From Robert Tulip : Here is the SPM https://report.ipcc.ch/ar6syr/pdf/IPCC_AR6_SYR_SPM.pdf

Agenda
Clive - the role of black carbon to Arctic warming by Arctic Haze, the additionally accelerated ice melt by its snow and ice discoloration, and its potential removal near its source with Iron Salt Aerosol
- the potential role of floating habitat and nutrition in the deep ocean to producing fast sinking organic and carbonate particles.
- Human waste from ships
- Do hygroscopic aerosols get rained out within days or weeks? And where?
Chris "“ AR6 synthesis report
Chat
21:38:06 From Robert Tulip : Here is the SPM https://report.ipcc.ch/ar6syr/pdf/IPCC_AR6_SYR_SPM.pdf

Attending: Franz Oeste, John MacDonald, Clive Elsworth, Hugh Hunt, Sev Clarke, Stephen Salter, Brian Von Herzen, Chris Vivian, Aria McKenna, Bru Pearce, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman

Attending: Franz Oeste, John MacDonald, Clive Elsworth, Hugh Hunt, Sev Clarke, Stephen Salter, Brian Von Herzen, Chris Vivian, Aria McKenna, Bru Pearce, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Stephen Salter, John Nissen, Sev Clarke, MannaJo Green, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman, Brian Von Herzen, Bru Pearce, Grant Gower, Chris Vivian, David Henckel-Wallis

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Stephen Salter, John Nissen, Sev Clarke, MannaJo Green, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman, Brian Von Herzen, Bru Pearce, Grant Gower, Chris Vivian, David Henckel-Wallis

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Nissen, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Bru Pearce, Sev Clarke, Grant Gower, Michael Routh, Manna Jo, Brian Von Herzen, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman, Oswald Petersen

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Nissen, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Bru Pearce, Sev Clarke, Grant Gower, Michael Routh, Manna Jo, Brian Von Herzen, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman, Oswald Petersen

At the very beginning Franz Oeste mentioned a new way he has discovered of formulating Iron Salt Aerosol, that may deplete largescale atmospheric methane (and other GHGs) with only 10% of the iron previously thought to be needed.
We congratulated Brian von-Herzon on his Climate Foundation’s winning of Elon Musk’s X-Prize - $1 million.
Chris Vivian introduced the recent article in Medium on Ocean nutrification. It was quickly established that pumping up sediment from the seabed would likely be catastrophic for sea life, not least filter feeders. We all know there are much better ways. Nonetheless I said it was good to see something accessible to the layman introducing nature-based ocean CDR.
Bru Pearce introduced a project proposing use of Sargassum for C sequestration, headed by Sebastian Stevens (https://seafields.eco/) and involving Victor Smetacek. But since sargassum is already problematically washing up on beaches in huge quantities it was generally thought this was not a good idea either.
Brian introduced the recent ‘Just have a think’ video on a UCLA study on direct ocean C capture, and explained how it would add CO2 to the atmosphere rather than remove it.
John Nissen gave us a brief update on his useful climate scenarios grid.
I asked people (initially Chris Vivian) to suggest topics of ocean research that should be made a priority. Others also suggested research areas, notably Arctic warming. This was all useful and informative.
Chat Links
From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : Alex Carlin wrote a piece in Medium ’National Academy of Sciences Holds Up Key Climate Solution’ on Ocean Pasture Restoration https://medium.com/@pynotic/national-academy-of-science-holds-up-key-climate-solution-b55b56e70f82
From Dr Brian von Herzen : https://us02web.zoom.us/j/83953362379
From Dr Brian von Herzen : https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acssuschemeng.0c08561
From Dr Brian von Herzen : UCLA paper for discussion, proposed calcium carbonate precipitation
From Bru Pearce : www.Seafields.eco
From Chris Vivian : This is the doc I just mentioned https://groups.google.com/g/geoengineering/c/btg7FK-Bdos
From Chris Vivian : The American Meteorological Society has just put out a statement on climate intervention that recommends an accelerated and robust climate intervention program https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/ams/about-ams/ams-statements/statements-of-the-ams-in-force/climate-intervention/
From Chris Vivian : Brian, re the Seafields scheme see Steve Rackley's comments in this CDR Google Groups thread https://groups.google.com/g/CarbonDioxideRemoval/c/TCWLLEC1xsY/m/i93oW4GFCAAJ?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
From Bru Pearce : https://pace.gsfc.nasa.gov/
From Chris Vivian : You may be interested in this event UK Greenhouse Gas Removal Event: Current Innovations & Future Directions - https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/uk-greenhouse-gas-removal-event-current-innovations-future-directions-tickets-299099242887?aff=eemailordconf&utm_campaign=order_confirm&utm_medium=email&ref=eemailordconf&utm_source=eventbrite&utm_term=viewevent

At the very beginning Franz Oeste mentioned a new way he has discovered of formulating Iron Salt Aerosol, that may deplete largescale atmospheric methane (and other GHGs) with only 10% of the iron previously thought to be needed.
We congratulated Brian von-Herzon on his Climate Foundation’s winning of Elon Musk’s X-Prize - $1 million.
Chris Vivian introduced the recent article in Medium on Ocean nutrification. It was quickly established that pumping up sediment from the seabed would likely be catastrophic for sea life, not least filter feeders. We all know there are much better ways. Nonetheless I said it was good to see something accessible to the layman introducing nature-based ocean CDR.
Bru Pearce introduced a project proposing use of Sargassum for C sequestration, headed by Sebastian Stevens (https://seafields.eco/) and involving Victor Smetacek. But since sargassum is already problematically washing up on beaches in huge quantities it was generally thought this was not a good idea either.
Brian introduced the recent ‘Just have a think’ video on a UCLA study on direct ocean C capture, and explained how it would add CO2 to the atmosphere rather than remove it.
John Nissen gave us a brief update on his useful climate scenarios grid.
I asked people (initially Chris Vivian) to suggest topics of ocean research that should be made a priority. Others also suggested research areas, notably Arctic warming. This was all useful and informative.
Chat Links
From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : Alex Carlin wrote a piece in Medium ’National Academy of Sciences Holds Up Key Climate Solution’ on Ocean Pasture Restoration https://medium.com/@pynotic/national-academy-of-science-holds-up-key-climate-solution-b55b56e70f82
From Dr Brian von Herzen : https://us02web.zoom.us/j/83953362379
From Dr Brian von Herzen : https://pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/acssuschemeng.0c08561
From Dr Brian von Herzen : UCLA paper for discussion, proposed calcium carbonate precipitation
From Bru Pearce : www.Seafields.eco
From Chris Vivian : This is the doc I just mentioned https://groups.google.com/g/geoengineering/c/btg7FK-Bdos
From Chris Vivian : The American Meteorological Society has just put out a statement on climate intervention that recommends an accelerated and robust climate intervention program https://www.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/ams/about-ams/ams-statements/statements-of-the-ams-in-force/climate-intervention/
From Chris Vivian : Brian, re the Seafields scheme see Steve Rackley's comments in this CDR Google Groups thread https://groups.google.com/g/CarbonDioxideRemoval/c/TCWLLEC1xsY/m/i93oW4GFCAAJ?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
From Bru Pearce : https://pace.gsfc.nasa.gov/
From Chris Vivian : You may be interested in this event UK Greenhouse Gas Removal Event: Current Innovations & Future Directions - https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/uk-greenhouse-gas-removal-event-current-innovations-future-directions-tickets-299099242887?aff=eemailordconf&utm_campaign=order_confirm&utm_medium=email&ref=eemailordconf&utm_source=eventbrite&utm_term=viewevent

- We discussed Sev Clarke"™s new idea of measuring largescale ocean CDR by using sonar to measure krill populations.
- Robert Tulip commented on the recent The Hill article on ocean CDR.
- Towards the end we discussed the importance of ocean carbonate chemistry for determining long term sequestration and pH in the ocean. Brian pointed out the ocean"™s natural "˜antacid medicine"™ against acidification: huge carbonate deposits that cover the seafloor and on seamounts down to the carbonate compensation depth.
Brian also mentioned Eddy Covariance, which is explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_covariance

- We discussed Sev Clarke"™s new idea of measuring largescale ocean CDR by using sonar to measure krill populations.
- Robert Tulip commented on the recent The Hill article on ocean CDR.
- Towards the end we discussed the importance of ocean carbonate chemistry for determining long term sequestration and pH in the ocean. Brian pointed out the ocean"™s natural "˜antacid medicine"™ against acidification: huge carbonate deposits that cover the seafloor and on seamounts down to the carbonate compensation depth.
Brian also mentioned Eddy Covariance, which is explained here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_covariance

Description pending

Description pending

There was a discussion of Robert Tulip’s graphic of climate solution priorities: 1. Albedo enhancement, 2. GHG removal, 3. Emissions reduction.
Robert commented on the 80/20 pareto rule: Our efforts should be focused where they will make 80% of the difference needed.
Brian commented that the next 20 years of warming will be impacted more by this year’s methane emissions than this year’s CO2 emissions, so the importance of methane reduction and removal should be recognised. E.g. reducing industrial (and war induced) gas leakage would help far more than placing solar panels on school roofs, for example.
Sev listed methods of albedo enhancement in order of safety and affordability. His view: Marine Cloud Brightening (MCB), Buoyant Flakes, Fiztops and lastly Arctic ice thickening. He also advocated splitting methane to produce hydrogen and nanocarbon products (zero carbon). John Nissen insisted on adding Stratospheric Aerosol Injection (SAI) to the list.
There was strong agreement that until there is political recognition of the need for albedo enhancement – and ideally a business model to support it – climate catastrophe looms. A possible opportunity: the insurance industry would greatly benefit from reduced hurricane intensity.
Hugh Hunt raised the question of why the Covid 6% reduction of CO2 emissions hasn’t shown up in the Keeling curve. Ocean warming and increased forest fires were put forward as possible reasons.
Brian said there is plenty of room in the ocean for more CO2. (I would comment that the vast majority of CO2 in the ocean exists as dissolved compounds, mainly bicarbonate and organic material. Also, phytoplankton play a major role in ocean CO2 absorption, and reduced nutrients in the increasingly stratified mixed layer are likely inhibiting their role in that regard.)
Shaun explained that more funding is looking likely for CCRC, which will be put into increased work on MCB (leaning heavily on Stephen Salter’s work) and close collaboration with Daniel Harrison who is open minded on droplet size.
Hugh predicted that as Arctic melting accelerates SAI is likely to get deployed if our preferred and more socially acceptable nature based solutions don’t turn out to be effective enough. He and Shaun will soon be attending the Gordon conference in Maine to discuss SRM/SAI. Unofficial, unpublished opinions of scientists (he met at Vienna) are that the Arctic will be ice free in next 15-20 years.
The benefits of short lived, fast acting tropospheric aerosols were discussed by Brian and Stephen. Small, real time interventions based on meteorological predictions could have a powerful effect, especially with the increased computer power coming down the line.
John Nissen argued that an SAI intervention beyond 50o North would be short lived and brighten clouds, but Stephen argued that the aerosol would end up spreading everywhere in that hemisphere, and might end up working in the wrong direction. (He has circulated something on Brewer Dobson that he said supports his claim.) Hugh pointed out that the stratosphere is lower in the Arctic, so an intervention would be easier there.
Daniel and Stephen discussed how optimal Monsoons could be brought about with MCB.
The new Australian government was discussed, and the opportunity of growing renewables there.
The benefits of cold water upwelling powered by OTEC around Australian waters was discussed by Brian and Robert, capital permitting.
Sev explained that ocean brightening might reduce radiative forcing by 1-2 W/m2, but a big research program would be needed to verify that.
John Nissen pointed out that Pinatubo had a noticeable effect on the Keeling curve, without a termination shock. Possible reasons: 1. More diffuse light enhanced photosynthesis, 2. Cooler oceans accommodated more CO2, 3. More dust fertilized phytoplankton growth.
There was laughter about net-zero beer by 2050/2060.
Bru talked about some encouragi

There was a discussion of Robert Tulip’s graphic of climate solution priorities: 1. Albedo enhancement, 2. GHG removal, 3. Emissions reduction.
Robert commented on the 80/20 pareto rule: Our efforts should be focused where they will make 80% of the difference needed.
Brian commented that the next 20 years of warming will be impacted more by this year’s methane emissions than this year’s CO2 emissions, so the importance of methane reduction and removal should be recognised. E.g. reducing industrial (and war induced) gas leakage would help far more than placing solar panels on school roofs, for example.
Sev listed methods of albedo enhancement in order of safety and affordability. His view: Marine Cloud Brightening (MCB), Buoyant Flakes, Fiztops and lastly Arctic ice thickening. He also advocated splitting methane to produce hydrogen and nanocarbon products (zero carbon). John Nissen insisted on adding Stratospheric Aerosol Injection (SAI) to the list.
There was strong agreement that until there is political recognition of the need for albedo enhancement – and ideally a business model to support it – climate catastrophe looms. A possible opportunity: the insurance industry would greatly benefit from reduced hurricane intensity.
Hugh Hunt raised the question of why the Covid 6% reduction of CO2 emissions hasn’t shown up in the Keeling curve. Ocean warming and increased forest fires were put forward as possible reasons.
Brian said there is plenty of room in the ocean for more CO2. (I would comment that the vast majority of CO2 in the ocean exists as dissolved compounds, mainly bicarbonate and organic material. Also, phytoplankton play a major role in ocean CO2 absorption, and reduced nutrients in the increasingly stratified mixed layer are likely inhibiting their role in that regard.)
Shaun explained that more funding is looking likely for CCRC, which will be put into increased work on MCB (leaning heavily on Stephen Salter’s work) and close collaboration with Daniel Harrison who is open minded on droplet size.
Hugh predicted that as Arctic melting accelerates SAI is likely to get deployed if our preferred and more socially acceptable nature based solutions don’t turn out to be effective enough. He and Shaun will soon be attending the Gordon conference in Maine to discuss SRM/SAI. Unofficial, unpublished opinions of scientists (he met at Vienna) are that the Arctic will be ice free in next 15-20 years.
The benefits of short lived, fast acting tropospheric aerosols were discussed by Brian and Stephen. Small, real time interventions based on meteorological predictions could have a powerful effect, especially with the increased computer power coming down the line.
John Nissen argued that an SAI intervention beyond 50o North would be short lived and brighten clouds, but Stephen argued that the aerosol would end up spreading everywhere in that hemisphere, and might end up working in the wrong direction. (He has circulated something on Brewer Dobson that he said supports his claim.) Hugh pointed out that the stratosphere is lower in the Arctic, so an intervention would be easier there.
Daniel and Stephen discussed how optimal Monsoons could be brought about with MCB.
The new Australian government was discussed, and the opportunity of growing renewables there.
The benefits of cold water upwelling powered by OTEC around Australian waters was discussed by Brian and Robert, capital permitting.
Sev explained that ocean brightening might reduce radiative forcing by 1-2 W/m2, but a big research program would be needed to verify that.
John Nissen pointed out that Pinatubo had a noticeable effect on the Keeling curve, without a termination shock. Possible reasons: 1. More diffuse light enhanced photosynthesis, 2. Cooler oceans accommodated more CO2, 3. More dust fertilized phytoplankton growth.
There was laughter about net-zero beer by 2050/2060.
Bru talked about some encouragi

Agenda
John N – BBC News says 1.5C will arrive twice as soon as previously thought.
- Letter to Guardian re Hansen Global warming in pipeline paper
Chris V – Report from Chatham House – focusing on 1.5 is flawed, focus on tipping points
Hugh H – MCB and controlling hurricanes
Chris V – Compendium of interventions – in the chat
Sev – NOAC website progress – integration of Blue Cooling Initiative, HPAC ,PRAG
Ron – Comments on bunker fuel letter?
Clive – Just Have A Think – recent video very good.
– Radiative forcing to -0.26 W/m2 waterfall chart demo.
Chat
20:06:23 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Carbon emissions threaten 1.5C climate threshold sooner than thought – report - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67242386
20:07:16 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Global warming: Why focusing on 1.5C is flawed - https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/2023-10/global-warming-why-focusing-15c-flawed?utm_source=Chatham%20House&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=14169358_CH%20-%20Content%20Newsletter%20-%2017.10.23&utm_content=Global-Title&dm_i=1S3M,8FP5A,NODY6,YTVON,1
20:10:08 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : FROZEN ARCTIC: Compendium of interventions to slow down, halt, and reverse the effects of climate change in the Arctic and northern regions - https://new.uarctic.org/media/to0bjpal/frozen-arctic-rra-compendium.pdf
20:10:48 From Ron Baiman : First part of Sharpe's book is very good on risk analysis and climate.
20:12:43 From Ron Baiman : Bunker fuel letter link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WNsRI8GbyZgdso39ptKuKFI2HA6ZuBni/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=116465941111195452408&rtpof=true'sd=true
20:13:23 From Herb Simmens : The Nov 16th HPAC meeting will feature Mike McCracken discussing the differing approaches to addressing risk that various professions and institutions take
20:15:28 From Herb Simmens : This Thursday Nov 2 HPAC meeting at 3:30 PM EDT 19:30 PM GMT will feature Doug MacMartin of Cornell on SRM/SAI..
20:17:00 From Robert Chris : https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01848-5
20:19:42 From Herb Simmens : This blog post has a link to the paper in the first sentence https://scienceisshiny.wordpress.com/2023/10/30/carbon-budgets-how-hard-is-the-paris-agreement-now/
20:21:37 From Bill Chapman, Brooklyn : I was horrified when Trump and some Republicans started talking about

Agenda
John N – BBC News says 1.5C will arrive twice as soon as previously thought.
- Letter to Guardian re Hansen Global warming in pipeline paper
Chris V – Report from Chatham House – focusing on 1.5 is flawed, focus on tipping points
Hugh H – MCB and controlling hurricanes
Chris V – Compendium of interventions – in the chat
Sev – NOAC website progress – integration of Blue Cooling Initiative, HPAC ,PRAG
Ron – Comments on bunker fuel letter?
Clive – Just Have A Think – recent video very good.
– Radiative forcing to -0.26 W/m2 waterfall chart demo.
Chat
20:06:23 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Carbon emissions threaten 1.5C climate threshold sooner than thought – report - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-67242386
20:07:16 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Global warming: Why focusing on 1.5C is flawed - https://www.chathamhouse.org/publications/the-world-today/2023-10/global-warming-why-focusing-15c-flawed?utm_source=Chatham%20House&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=14169358_CH%20-%20Content%20Newsletter%20-%2017.10.23&utm_content=Global-Title&dm_i=1S3M,8FP5A,NODY6,YTVON,1
20:10:08 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : FROZEN ARCTIC: Compendium of interventions to slow down, halt, and reverse the effects of climate change in the Arctic and northern regions - https://new.uarctic.org/media/to0bjpal/frozen-arctic-rra-compendium.pdf
20:10:48 From Ron Baiman : First part of Sharpe's book is very good on risk analysis and climate.
20:12:43 From Ron Baiman : Bunker fuel letter link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WNsRI8GbyZgdso39ptKuKFI2HA6ZuBni/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=116465941111195452408&rtpof=true'sd=true
20:13:23 From Herb Simmens : The Nov 16th HPAC meeting will feature Mike McCracken discussing the differing approaches to addressing risk that various professions and institutions take
20:15:28 From Herb Simmens : This Thursday Nov 2 HPAC meeting at 3:30 PM EDT 19:30 PM GMT will feature Doug MacMartin of Cornell on SRM/SAI..
20:17:00 From Robert Chris : https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-023-01848-5
20:19:42 From Herb Simmens : This blog post has a link to the paper in the first sentence https://scienceisshiny.wordpress.com/2023/10/30/carbon-budgets-how-hard-is-the-paris-agreement-now/
20:21:37 From Bill Chapman, Brooklyn : I was horrified when Trump and some Republicans started talking about

Agenda
Bruce P - NOAC Website
Chris V "“ Marine CDR research projects announced.
Brian VH "“ Jim Hansen"™s Oct note "“ El Nino Fizzles, Earth Sizzles
Stephen S "“ what would doubling of aerosol do?
Clive E "“ What would satellite aerosol measurement do?
Methane PNAS conf "“ Copenhagen papers.
Chat
21:07:22 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : US Announcements on marine CDR:\rWhite House Forms Committee On Marine Carbon Removal - https://carbonherald.com/white-house-forms-committee-on-marine-carbon-removal/\rMarine Carbon Dioxide Removal: Potential Ways to Harness the Ocean to Mitigate Climate Change - https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/news-updates/2023/10/06/marine-carbon-dioxide-removal-potential-ways-to-harness-the-ocean-to-mitigate-climate-change/ \rMarine Carbon Dioxide Removal Fast Track Action Committee - https://www.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-10/mCDR_FTAC_charter_2023_09_19_approved.pdf\rAnnouncing $24.3m Investment Advancing Marine Carbon Dioxide Removal Research - https://oceanacidification.noaa.gov/focus_areas/carbon-dioxide-removal/\r21:08:50 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Hansen paper https://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2023/ElNinoFizzles.13October2023.pdf\r21:44:09 From Clive Elsworth : https://seao2-cdr.eu/\r21:47:15 From Clive Elsworth : http://www.gesamp.org/site/assets/files/1723/ocean_climate_intervention_projects_sept_2023.xlsx\r22:05:07 From baiman"™s iPhone : Yes!! Especially if aviation can emit enough aerosol to have a significant cooling impact/. Apologies I"™m with grandson so can"™t participate in person !\r22:11:20 From Hugh Hunt : https://www.ukri.org/opportunity/jet-zero-aviations-non-co2-impacts-on-the-climate/?utm_medium=email\u0026utm_source=govdelivery\r22:11:31 From Hugh Hunt : That's the JetZero link\r22:13:37 From Hugh Hunt : Maybe this one can be used for Oceans:\r\rhttps://www.ukri.org/opportunity/pushing-the-frontiers-of-environmental-research-jan-2024/\r22:21:52 From baiman"™s iPhone : Thank you Hugh\r22:31:33 From John Macdonald : Also there"™s lthe Methane Tracker 2020

Agenda
Bruce P - NOAC Website
Chris V "“ Marine CDR research projects announced.
Brian VH "“ Jim Hansen"™s Oct note "“ El Nino Fizzles, Earth Sizzles
Stephen S "“ what would doubling of aerosol do?
Clive E "“ What would satellite aerosol measurement do?
Methane PNAS conf "“ Copenhagen papers.
Chat
21:07:22 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : US Announcements on marine CDR:\rWhite House Forms Committee On Marine Carbon Removal - https://carbonherald.com/white-house-forms-committee-on-marine-carbon-removal/\rMarine Carbon Dioxide Removal: Potential Ways to Harness the Ocean to Mitigate Climate Change - https://www.whitehouse.gov/ostp/news-updates/2023/10/06/marine-carbon-dioxide-removal-potential-ways-to-harness-the-ocean-to-mitigate-climate-change/ \rMarine Carbon Dioxide Removal Fast Track Action Committee - https://www.noaa.gov/sites/default/files/2023-10/mCDR_FTAC_charter_2023_09_19_approved.pdf\rAnnouncing $24.3m Investment Advancing Marine Carbon Dioxide Removal Research - https://oceanacidification.noaa.gov/focus_areas/carbon-dioxide-removal/\r21:08:50 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Hansen paper https://www.columbia.edu/~jeh1/mailings/2023/ElNinoFizzles.13October2023.pdf\r21:44:09 From Clive Elsworth : https://seao2-cdr.eu/\r21:47:15 From Clive Elsworth : http://www.gesamp.org/site/assets/files/1723/ocean_climate_intervention_projects_sept_2023.xlsx\r22:05:07 From baiman"™s iPhone : Yes!! Especially if aviation can emit enough aerosol to have a significant cooling impact/. Apologies I"™m with grandson so can"™t participate in person !\r22:11:20 From Hugh Hunt : https://www.ukri.org/opportunity/jet-zero-aviations-non-co2-impacts-on-the-climate/?utm_medium=email\u0026utm_source=govdelivery\r22:11:31 From Hugh Hunt : That's the JetZero link\r22:13:37 From Hugh Hunt : Maybe this one can be used for Oceans:\r\rhttps://www.ukri.org/opportunity/pushing-the-frontiers-of-environmental-research-jan-2024/\r22:21:52 From baiman"™s iPhone : Thank you Hugh\r22:31:33 From John Macdonald : Also there"™s lthe Methane Tracker 2020

Attending: Anton Alferness, Stephen Salter, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Sev Clarke, Brian Von Herzen, Doug Grandt

Attending: Anton Alferness, Stephen Salter, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Sev Clarke, Brian Von Herzen, Doug Grandt

NOAC Meeting points - 11th July 2022
The whole transcript plus meeting notes is here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yVnVuCvfALGi8nT0QG3qEjiurN-eZRug5DFEzikDZkc/edit?usp=sharing
Robert: There is a false orthodoxy that nothing can be done to avoid 1.5 C. Albedo enhancement appears to be taboo or doesn’t exist. There is no serious policy engagement. Climate complications (like medical complications) might be avoided with SRM. It’s ignored because of the moral hazard argument that demonises the fossil fuel (FF) industry. The only thing that could now prevent biodiversity loss, sea level rise (SLR), extreme weather events etc is to increase albedo. Saying otherwise has no scientific basis.
[Albedo enhancement also means Solar Radiation Management – SRM, e.g. Stratospheric Aerosol Injection - SAI, Marine Cloud Brightening – MCB]
Aria: Climate denial to avoid the necessary technology changes is pretty evil. It has already caused millions of deaths.
Robert: Committed warming was in place even during the 1990s.
Aria: It’s important not to oppose reducing emissions.
Robert: Cutting emissions is marginal to stabilising the climate. Too much focus on emissions reduction detracts from what would have more effect. Even greenhouse gas removal (GGR) should not be the primary response.
Aria: We need an ‘all of the above’ approach, and not be adversarial. People should continue operating in their area of expertise. We want to build alliances and not risk masking underlying problems.
Brian: The public need to be brought on board step-by-step that decarbonization is necessary but not sufficient, and planetary albedo needs to be restored. Eg Arctic albedo has reduced from 0.8 to 0.2.
The fossil fuel industry lied for decades, but today they’re not all the same. E.g. Shell has committed to reducing scope 3 (customer) emissions by 45% by 2035. FF and mining companies are among the few with the cash to scale huge technology transformations. That should continue, with maybe 10% of resources going to cooling interventions to avoid the worst effects of warming this century as we get back to a healthy CO2 level, which will take longer.
Robert: Yes, decarbonisation investment should continue, but the priority should move to albedo restoration to avoid the current big risk of Arctic collapse. The public is unaware of the inadequacy of decarbonization.
Brian: Albedo contains many components, but we can say: “Make the planet brighter – and smarter.”
Aria: Yes, I love that framing.
Sev: Brightening is much less painful than emissions reduction. Priorities need reordering: 1. Brightening, 2. GGR, 3. Emissions reduction, 4. Thermal management, (e.g. cirrus cloud thinning), 5. Adaptation - sea walls are only temporarily effective.
Me: Polarisation is less problematic than demonization. (Prof Kotkin)
Robert: Fossil fuels have delivered high standards of living. It’s risky to reduce those. Demonization hampers civilised dialogue.
Sev: You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Aria: But pollution is damaging to human health. Energy efficiency would ameliorate that.
Brian: We could be at the start of a microbial methane bomb. An atmospheric methane depletion intervention could cut the warming rate in half. Perhaps focus 80% of efforts on that, and rebrightening.
Robert: Increasing Arctic albedo is the best way to slow permafrost methane emissions and curb the accelerating feedback loops.
Ron: I’m trying to compile a document of cooling technologies. 1.2 billion people live in countries that depend on fossil fuel earnings, and the Republican Party has been bought by the FF industry.
Bru: Large environmental groups have insufficient understanding of the problems. Closing down the global economy would cause untold suffering. Planetary brightening is an absolute necessity, as is reducing emissions as fast as we can. Our job is to educate the public, while kee

NOAC Meeting points - 11th July 2022
The whole transcript plus meeting notes is here:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yVnVuCvfALGi8nT0QG3qEjiurN-eZRug5DFEzikDZkc/edit?usp=sharing
Robert: There is a false orthodoxy that nothing can be done to avoid 1.5 C. Albedo enhancement appears to be taboo or doesn’t exist. There is no serious policy engagement. Climate complications (like medical complications) might be avoided with SRM. It’s ignored because of the moral hazard argument that demonises the fossil fuel (FF) industry. The only thing that could now prevent biodiversity loss, sea level rise (SLR), extreme weather events etc is to increase albedo. Saying otherwise has no scientific basis.
[Albedo enhancement also means Solar Radiation Management – SRM, e.g. Stratospheric Aerosol Injection - SAI, Marine Cloud Brightening – MCB]
Aria: Climate denial to avoid the necessary technology changes is pretty evil. It has already caused millions of deaths.
Robert: Committed warming was in place even during the 1990s.
Aria: It’s important not to oppose reducing emissions.
Robert: Cutting emissions is marginal to stabilising the climate. Too much focus on emissions reduction detracts from what would have more effect. Even greenhouse gas removal (GGR) should not be the primary response.
Aria: We need an ‘all of the above’ approach, and not be adversarial. People should continue operating in their area of expertise. We want to build alliances and not risk masking underlying problems.
Brian: The public need to be brought on board step-by-step that decarbonization is necessary but not sufficient, and planetary albedo needs to be restored. Eg Arctic albedo has reduced from 0.8 to 0.2.
The fossil fuel industry lied for decades, but today they’re not all the same. E.g. Shell has committed to reducing scope 3 (customer) emissions by 45% by 2035. FF and mining companies are among the few with the cash to scale huge technology transformations. That should continue, with maybe 10% of resources going to cooling interventions to avoid the worst effects of warming this century as we get back to a healthy CO2 level, which will take longer.
Robert: Yes, decarbonisation investment should continue, but the priority should move to albedo restoration to avoid the current big risk of Arctic collapse. The public is unaware of the inadequacy of decarbonization.
Brian: Albedo contains many components, but we can say: “Make the planet brighter – and smarter.”
Aria: Yes, I love that framing.
Sev: Brightening is much less painful than emissions reduction. Priorities need reordering: 1. Brightening, 2. GGR, 3. Emissions reduction, 4. Thermal management, (e.g. cirrus cloud thinning), 5. Adaptation - sea walls are only temporarily effective.
Me: Polarisation is less problematic than demonization. (Prof Kotkin)
Robert: Fossil fuels have delivered high standards of living. It’s risky to reduce those. Demonization hampers civilised dialogue.
Sev: You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.
Aria: But pollution is damaging to human health. Energy efficiency would ameliorate that.
Brian: We could be at the start of a microbial methane bomb. An atmospheric methane depletion intervention could cut the warming rate in half. Perhaps focus 80% of efforts on that, and rebrightening.
Robert: Increasing Arctic albedo is the best way to slow permafrost methane emissions and curb the accelerating feedback loops.
Ron: I’m trying to compile a document of cooling technologies. 1.2 billion people live in countries that depend on fossil fuel earnings, and the Republican Party has been bought by the FF industry.
Bru: Large environmental groups have insufficient understanding of the problems. Closing down the global economy would cause untold suffering. Planetary brightening is an absolute necessity, as is reducing emissions as fast as we can. Our job is to educate the public, while kee

Agenda
Clive "“ Simplified graphics making case for MCB
Sev "“ Project updates from Rebecca, John, Bru, Clive
John N "“ Tipping points
Chat
20:07:40 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Global heating will pass 1.5C threshold this year, top ex-Nasa scientist says https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/08/global-temperature-over-1-5-c-climate-change?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
20:13:45 From Ursula Head : Happy New Year, everyone!
20:14:41 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/futuretense/who-are-the-beneficiaries-of-climate-change-/102960772?utm_campaign=abc_listen\u0026utm_content=link\u0026utm_medium=content_shared\u0026utm_source=abc_listen
20:34:18 From Bru Pearce : https://emagazine.com/energy-imbalance/
20:44:47 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : Rebrighten.org
20:49:42 From Bru Pearce : https://www.gcsp.ch/Equity4Humanity
20:59:26 From Shaun Fitzgerald : Sorry i arrived v late, and alas i can't stay tonight. But good to see you. Best wishes, Shaun
21:03:18 From Bru Pearce : www.envisionation.org
21:03:51 From Bru Pearce : http://icesfoundation.org/Pages/Home.aspx
21:31:31 From John Macdonald : Apologies, I need to leave now.
Happy to answer any questions on the inventions I mentioned.

Agenda
Clive "“ Simplified graphics making case for MCB
Sev "“ Project updates from Rebecca, John, Bru, Clive
John N "“ Tipping points
Chat
20:07:40 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Global heating will pass 1.5C threshold this year, top ex-Nasa scientist says https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2024/jan/08/global-temperature-over-1-5-c-climate-change?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
20:13:45 From Ursula Head : Happy New Year, everyone!
20:14:41 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/futuretense/who-are-the-beneficiaries-of-climate-change-/102960772?utm_campaign=abc_listen\u0026utm_content=link\u0026utm_medium=content_shared\u0026utm_source=abc_listen
20:34:18 From Bru Pearce : https://emagazine.com/energy-imbalance/
20:44:47 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : Rebrighten.org
20:49:42 From Bru Pearce : https://www.gcsp.ch/Equity4Humanity
20:59:26 From Shaun Fitzgerald : Sorry i arrived v late, and alas i can't stay tonight. But good to see you. Best wishes, Shaun
21:03:18 From Bru Pearce : www.envisionation.org
21:03:51 From Bru Pearce : http://icesfoundation.org/Pages/Home.aspx
21:31:31 From John Macdonald : Apologies, I need to leave now.
Happy to answer any questions on the inventions I mentioned.

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Sev Clarke, MannaJo Green, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman, Brian Von Herzen, Bru Pearce, Grant Gower, Peter Wadhams, Eduardo Greave, Herb Simmens

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Sev Clarke, MannaJo Green, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman, Brian Von Herzen, Bru Pearce, Grant Gower, Peter Wadhams, Eduardo Greave, Herb Simmens

Agenda
Sev "“ Threats from the hydrogen economy
CE - Titanium Oxide Aerosol "“ TOA
Brian "“ Seaweed "“ full hectare next year. Rebuttals
John N "“ SAI affecting oxidative power of atmosphere
Grant "“ update on his team"™s EHux project

Agenda
Sev "“ Threats from the hydrogen economy
CE - Titanium Oxide Aerosol "“ TOA
Brian "“ Seaweed "“ full hectare next year. Rebuttals
John N "“ SAI affecting oxidative power of atmosphere
Grant "“ update on his team"™s EHux project

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Brian Von Herzen, Stephen Salter, Joo Eun Yoon, Doug Grandt, Bru Pearce, Chris Vivian, Mannajo

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Brian Von Herzen, Stephen Salter, Joo Eun Yoon, Doug Grandt, Bru Pearce, Chris Vivian, Mannajo

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Sev Clarke, Clive Elsworth, Daniel Kieve, Vyt Garnys, Daniel, Wilson, Bhaskar, Hugh Hunt, Shaun Fitzgerald, Doug Grandt, Brian Von Herzon, Rocio Herbert, Peter Fiekowsky, Andy Meacham

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Sev Clarke, Clive Elsworth, Daniel Kieve, Vyt Garnys, Daniel, Wilson, Bhaskar, Hugh Hunt, Shaun Fitzgerald, Doug Grandt, Brian Von Herzon, Rocio Herbert, Peter Fiekowsky, Andy Meacham

Attending: Franz Oeste, Bru Pearce, Stephen Salter, Brian Von Herzen, Chris Vivian, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Sev Clarke, John Nissen, Doug Grandt, Peter Fiekowsky, Mannajo, Eduardo Greaves, Aaron Franklin, Ron Baiman

Attending: Franz Oeste, Bru Pearce, Stephen Salter, Brian Von Herzen, Chris Vivian, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Sev Clarke, John Nissen, Doug Grandt, Peter Fiekowsky, Mannajo, Eduardo Greaves, Aaron Franklin, Ron Baiman

Attending: Bru Pearce, John Macdonald, Stephen Salter, Doug Grandt, Sev Clarke, Chris Vivian, Franz Oeste, John Nissen, Herb Simmens, Hugh Hunt, Robert Tulip

Attending: Bru Pearce, John Macdonald, Stephen Salter, Doug Grandt, Sev Clarke, Chris Vivian, Franz Oeste, John Nissen, Herb Simmens, Hugh Hunt, Robert Tulip

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Robert Tulip, Sev Clarke, MannaJo Green, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman, Brian Von Herzen, Grant Gower, Chris Vivian, David Henckel Wallace

Attending: Franz Oeste, John Macdonald, Clive Elsworth, Robert Tulip, Sev Clarke, MannaJo Green, Doug Grandt, Ron Baiman, Brian Von Herzen, Grant Gower, Chris Vivian, David Henckel Wallace

Main discussions:
Peter Carter’s recent video warning of today's radiative forcing of over 3 W/m2 spelling climate disaster (see chat link) seems at odds with the figure of 1.7 W/m2 from Prof Julia Slingo (recently retired director of the Hadley centre). 1.7 also aligns more closely with the NASA GISS graph of net forcing after anthropogenic aerosols are taken into account (scroll down to the first graph): https://data.giss.nasa.gov/modelforce/ Steven pointed out (once again) that 1.7 W/m2 is only ½% of the energy arriving from the sun, of 340 W/m2 . This again makes a compelling case for cooling by marine cloud brightening (MCB).
I probably confused many by writing on the agenda “Atmospheric acidity causes more methane”. I meant “more methane depletion” i.e. naturally occurring iron salt aerosol depletes methane more efficiently when the pH is low (between pH 0.5 and 2 ). The loss of SO2 from ships and coal power stations may therefore be leading to higher ocean aerosol pHs, and therefore less atmospheric methane depletion.
Brian pointed out that determining whether methane lifetime is increasing might be done by measuring 14CH4 concentration, because 14C is an unstable carbon isotope produced only in the upper atmosphere. But I've since seen that 14C comes from nitrogen. Perhaps let's discuss next time.
Brian also said a newly increased source of methane seems to be mainly microbial methane, determined by isotopic signature (see chat link below).
We discussed possible use of artificial Iron Salt Aerosol to double up to provide MCB in addition to methane depletion. The rationale would be that it also makes white clouds, and if its technology will already be there, then why not follow the plan Steven promotes of emitting it in the right places at the right times to curb extreme weather events, as well as cooling the oceans?
There were more technical discussions of droplet size, size distribution and Cl atom production from sun irradiated droplets (especially from the 1 hr point).
Carbonyl sulphide (COS) has been proposed as a cooling intervention for the upper atmosphere, but is rather poisonous, and its production of an SO2 based aerosol in the right places at the right time seems haphazard.
Other points:
John N and Ron B asked us to review their temperature trajectory and HPAC documents, that make the case for cooling.
David HW foresaw the Supreme Court decision that was then announced mid last week, crippling the EPA's ability to direct emission reductions. He also pointed out (right at the start) that governments are not set up to address emissions effectively.
Both Brian and David HW said there's no such thing as social licence, just lots of people who say “no”. The best way to gain general acceptance is not through doom and gloom [or finger wagging, CE], but from positive messages.

Chat Links
From Clive Elsworth : Peter Carter’s video on radiative forcing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3-SBXrdjw0
From Dr Brian von Herzen : https://research.noaa.gov/article/ArtMID/587/ArticleID/2769/New-analysis-shows-microbial-sources-fueling-rise-of-atmospheric-methane
From Mannajo Greene : Climate activists elected officials and others need more education on how the global climate system work.

Main discussions:
Peter Carter’s recent video warning of today's radiative forcing of over 3 W/m2 spelling climate disaster (see chat link) seems at odds with the figure of 1.7 W/m2 from Prof Julia Slingo (recently retired director of the Hadley centre). 1.7 also aligns more closely with the NASA GISS graph of net forcing after anthropogenic aerosols are taken into account (scroll down to the first graph): https://data.giss.nasa.gov/modelforce/ Steven pointed out (once again) that 1.7 W/m2 is only ½% of the energy arriving from the sun, of 340 W/m2 . This again makes a compelling case for cooling by marine cloud brightening (MCB).
I probably confused many by writing on the agenda “Atmospheric acidity causes more methane”. I meant “more methane depletion” i.e. naturally occurring iron salt aerosol depletes methane more efficiently when the pH is low (between pH 0.5 and 2 ). The loss of SO2 from ships and coal power stations may therefore be leading to higher ocean aerosol pHs, and therefore less atmospheric methane depletion.
Brian pointed out that determining whether methane lifetime is increasing might be done by measuring 14CH4 concentration, because 14C is an unstable carbon isotope produced only in the upper atmosphere. But I've since seen that 14C comes from nitrogen. Perhaps let's discuss next time.
Brian also said a newly increased source of methane seems to be mainly microbial methane, determined by isotopic signature (see chat link below).
We discussed possible use of artificial Iron Salt Aerosol to double up to provide MCB in addition to methane depletion. The rationale would be that it also makes white clouds, and if its technology will already be there, then why not follow the plan Steven promotes of emitting it in the right places at the right times to curb extreme weather events, as well as cooling the oceans?
There were more technical discussions of droplet size, size distribution and Cl atom production from sun irradiated droplets (especially from the 1 hr point).
Carbonyl sulphide (COS) has been proposed as a cooling intervention for the upper atmosphere, but is rather poisonous, and its production of an SO2 based aerosol in the right places at the right time seems haphazard.
Other points:
John N and Ron B asked us to review their temperature trajectory and HPAC documents, that make the case for cooling.
David HW foresaw the Supreme Court decision that was then announced mid last week, crippling the EPA's ability to direct emission reductions. He also pointed out (right at the start) that governments are not set up to address emissions effectively.
Both Brian and David HW said there's no such thing as social licence, just lots of people who say “no”. The best way to gain general acceptance is not through doom and gloom [or finger wagging, CE], but from positive messages.

Chat Links
From Clive Elsworth : Peter Carter’s video on radiative forcing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3-SBXrdjw0
From Dr Brian von Herzen : https://research.noaa.gov/article/ArtMID/587/ArticleID/2769/New-analysis-shows-microbial-sources-fueling-rise-of-atmospheric-methane
From Mannajo Greene : Climate activists elected officials and others need more education on how the global climate system work.

Sev presented his ideas on boosting methanotrophs in shallow seas, melting tundra and other places.
We also discussed the potentially large carbon sequestration carried out by krill and other Diel Vertically Migrating creatures. If true it is completely unrecognized, and looks to deserve further urgent research, and likely curbed fishing.
Brian spoke of two recent impressive books: Regenesis by George Monbiot (on sustainable farming), and All we can Save, narrated by Jane Fonda (on the stress experienced by climate activists).
We talked about our own stress, and how we remain motivated in the face of huge ignorance of the general public on the issues and potentially strong solutions. The solutions we discuss are generally of both technical and human based. Grant mentioned the power of grandchildren in focusing their grandparents on the big problems coming down the line.
It was a great meeting. Thanks, all who were able to attend.
This time I hosted from a hotel room, which may have made it difficult for some to connect. Apologies if that was the case. I expect to be home again for the next NOAC meeting.
Clive

Sev presented his ideas on boosting methanotrophs in shallow seas, melting tundra and other places.
We also discussed the potentially large carbon sequestration carried out by krill and other Diel Vertically Migrating creatures. If true it is completely unrecognized, and looks to deserve further urgent research, and likely curbed fishing.
Brian spoke of two recent impressive books: Regenesis by George Monbiot (on sustainable farming), and All we can Save, narrated by Jane Fonda (on the stress experienced by climate activists).
We talked about our own stress, and how we remain motivated in the face of huge ignorance of the general public on the issues and potentially strong solutions. The solutions we discuss are generally of both technical and human based. Grant mentioned the power of grandchildren in focusing their grandparents on the big problems coming down the line.
It was a great meeting. Thanks, all who were able to attend.
This time I hosted from a hotel room, which may have made it difficult for some to connect. Apologies if that was the case. I expect to be home again for the next NOAC meeting.
Clive

Agenda
Brian "“ Effects of new record temperatures.
Clive "“ Powerful cloud cooling
Ron B - Lowest hanging fruit "“ Methane? Reinstate Bunker fuel?
"“ Simon Sharpe podcast
Doug "“ Very short messaging "“ Earth"™s fever
Stephen "“ Friendly letter to 120 anti-geoengineering NGOs
Chat
21:13:42 From Doug Grandt : So I don"™t forget: comments on posts by Facebook abd Substack bloggers and journalists Bill McKibben (The Crucial Years), Patrick Mazza (The Raven), Dan Rather, Dana Nuccitelli, CCL, @350.org
21:19:53 From Doug Grandt : Mother Eaarth has a high fever. Unthinking, human behavior, hubris and greed. has caused it, so we must change the root cause, which will take decades , time we can ill-afford to wait as the fever continues to rise.
What do doctors, nurses, mothers and grand mothers do for a child or any patient suffering from an elevated fever? They take immediate extraordinary action to cool their child and patient to stave off imminent death: sponge baths, rubbing alcohol, cold shower and ice bath in the extreme. Get the core body temperature down quickly, THEN go to work changing the conditions that brought on the fever.
Mother Eaarth needs immediate triage cooling to stave off tipping points while we spend decades reducing fossil fuel use and the concomitant CO2 and CH4 emissions., and remove past legacy accumulations from the atmosphere and oceans. The editors of the IPCC scientists"™ hard work has deluded us and the cult mantra is simply "Net Zero" which does nothing to reduce global temperatures.
21:30:13 From Robert Chris : This is from IMO 3 days ago: The revised IMO GHG Strategy includes an enhanced common ambition to reach net-zero GHG emissions from international shipping close to 2050, a commitment to ensure an uptake of alternative zero and near-zero GHG fuels by 2030, as well as indicative check-points for 2030 and 2040.
21:31:34 From Aaron Weast : May I ask the twitter handle for the tweet just discussed?
21:32:19 From Anton : "All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; second, it is violently opposed; and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
21:35:32 From Herb Simmens : My twitter handle is @herbsimmens GeoengineeringInfo is @geoengineering1
21:35:52 From Aaron Weast : Reacted to

Agenda
Brian "“ Effects of new record temperatures.
Clive "“ Powerful cloud cooling
Ron B - Lowest hanging fruit "“ Methane? Reinstate Bunker fuel?
"“ Simon Sharpe podcast
Doug "“ Very short messaging "“ Earth"™s fever
Stephen "“ Friendly letter to 120 anti-geoengineering NGOs
Chat
21:13:42 From Doug Grandt : So I don"™t forget: comments on posts by Facebook abd Substack bloggers and journalists Bill McKibben (The Crucial Years), Patrick Mazza (The Raven), Dan Rather, Dana Nuccitelli, CCL, @350.org
21:19:53 From Doug Grandt : Mother Eaarth has a high fever. Unthinking, human behavior, hubris and greed. has caused it, so we must change the root cause, which will take decades , time we can ill-afford to wait as the fever continues to rise.
What do doctors, nurses, mothers and grand mothers do for a child or any patient suffering from an elevated fever? They take immediate extraordinary action to cool their child and patient to stave off imminent death: sponge baths, rubbing alcohol, cold shower and ice bath in the extreme. Get the core body temperature down quickly, THEN go to work changing the conditions that brought on the fever.
Mother Eaarth needs immediate triage cooling to stave off tipping points while we spend decades reducing fossil fuel use and the concomitant CO2 and CH4 emissions., and remove past legacy accumulations from the atmosphere and oceans. The editors of the IPCC scientists"™ hard work has deluded us and the cult mantra is simply "Net Zero" which does nothing to reduce global temperatures.
21:30:13 From Robert Chris : This is from IMO 3 days ago: The revised IMO GHG Strategy includes an enhanced common ambition to reach net-zero GHG emissions from international shipping close to 2050, a commitment to ensure an uptake of alternative zero and near-zero GHG fuels by 2030, as well as indicative check-points for 2030 and 2040.
21:31:34 From Aaron Weast : May I ask the twitter handle for the tweet just discussed?
21:32:19 From Anton : "All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed; second, it is violently opposed; and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
21:35:32 From Herb Simmens : My twitter handle is @herbsimmens GeoengineeringInfo is @geoengineering1
21:35:52 From Aaron Weast : Reacted to

Agenda
Sev "“ Annual ocean C sequestration thought experiment
Bruce P "“ Are we already at 1.5C ? A look at the figures.
Jon "“ calculating long wave heat escape "“ Earth"™s Energy budget
John N "“ Declare that COP / IPCC strategy has failed - they have allowed dangerous climate change to occur.

Agenda
Sev "“ Annual ocean C sequestration thought experiment
Bruce P "“ Are we already at 1.5C ? A look at the figures.
Jon "“ calculating long wave heat escape "“ Earth"™s Energy budget
John N "“ Declare that COP / IPCC strategy has failed - they have allowed dangerous climate change to occur.

Agenda
Chris "“ Mangroves to save the climate - oversold
Chris - Draft AGU position status
Sev - Climate interventions without proper approval
Doug - Feedback on Elephant in room visual
Peter W "“ Burnt forest in Sardinia vs Darkened Greenland ice
Brian - The Earthshot prize winners
Chris - Steve Keen"™s webinar on neoclassical economists getting climate economics wrong
Chat
20:24:06 From Chris Vivian : Seychelles https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-63901644. Also, see these articles about blue carbon https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fclim.2022.853666 and https://www.aweimagazine.com/article/challenges-for-blue-carbon-solutions/
20:30:18 From DV Henkel-Wallace : I can't find the Shaun Fitzgerald zoom link -- could someone put in chat please?
20:31:16 From Chris Vivian : AGU https://www.agu.org/Share-and-Advocate/Share/Policymakers/Position-Statements/Draft-Climate-Intervention
20:31:50 From Sev Clarke : Shaun Fitzgerald https://us02web.zoom.us/j/82355048687

Agenda
Chris "“ Mangroves to save the climate - oversold
Chris - Draft AGU position status
Sev - Climate interventions without proper approval
Doug - Feedback on Elephant in room visual
Peter W "“ Burnt forest in Sardinia vs Darkened Greenland ice
Brian - The Earthshot prize winners
Chris - Steve Keen"™s webinar on neoclassical economists getting climate economics wrong
Chat
20:24:06 From Chris Vivian : Seychelles https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-63901644. Also, see these articles about blue carbon https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fclim.2022.853666 and https://www.aweimagazine.com/article/challenges-for-blue-carbon-solutions/
20:30:18 From DV Henkel-Wallace : I can't find the Shaun Fitzgerald zoom link -- could someone put in chat please?
20:31:16 From Chris Vivian : AGU https://www.agu.org/Share-and-Advocate/Share/Policymakers/Position-Statements/Draft-Climate-Intervention
20:31:50 From Sev Clarke : Shaun Fitzgerald https://us02web.zoom.us/j/82355048687

Agenda
John M "“ Debrief of CCRC workshop
Doug G "“ Cool the Arctic by cooling the tropics
Ron B "“ strategies for polar cooling
Rebecca B "“ Table of proposed cooling technologies
Anton A "“ What I"™m doing that may be relevant to NOAC
Bruce P "“ Building a NOAC website
Rebecca B "“ Singing from one hymn sheet
Chat
21:20:49 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : Here is the presenter who led a discussion on

Agenda
John M "“ Debrief of CCRC workshop
Doug G "“ Cool the Arctic by cooling the tropics
Ron B "“ strategies for polar cooling
Rebecca B "“ Table of proposed cooling technologies
Anton A "“ What I"™m doing that may be relevant to NOAC
Bruce P "“ Building a NOAC website
Rebecca B "“ Singing from one hymn sheet
Chat
21:20:49 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : Here is the presenter who led a discussion on

Agenda
Robert T "“ Problems with Stratospheric Aerosol Injection SAI? Franz?
Sev "“ Bru: Nitrate fertilization could increase biomass between 3 and 7 times?
Bru "“ Seafields "“ Sargassum farming in Atlantic "“ Sebastian Stevens
Clive "“ Cloud cooling info "“ Alan Gadian
- Biosphere self-regulation by transpiration release of airborne particles
- Interconnection between plants \u0026 fungi "“ c.f. quantum system / entanglement?
- Complex adaptive theory
COP27 "“ News? Anything? HPAC activities.
Chat
20:27:04 From Bru Pearce : https://www.theenergymix.com/2022/11/06/free-for-all-carbon-removals-plan-at-cop-27-sidelines-human-rights/
20:27:39 From Bru Pearce : An administrative decision on carbon removals, adopted in the dead of night with no community input, is raising alarm with experts attending the COP 27 climate summit in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt.
20:28:15 From Bru Pearce : As well, "including "˜oceans"™ as a possible sink with no further limitations opens the door to dangerous and far-reaching options such as ocean fertilization," ECO writes. "While some niche practices that restore damaged ocean ecosystems (seagrass, salt marshes, mangroves) could play a useful role in removing GHGs through anthropogenic actions, the proposed language is too broad and goes much beyond those activities."
20:42:29 From Robert Tulip : https://www.blue-economy.co.uk/special-report-blue-carbon
20:43:47 From Robert Tulip : https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2202230119 D. G. MacMartin, D. Visioni , B. Kravitz, J.H. Richter, T. Felgenhauer, W. R. Lee, D. R. Morrow, E. A. Parson, and M. Sugiyama, Scenarios for modeling solar radiation modification, Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, August 2022
20:48:05 From Robert Tulip :

Agenda
Robert T "“ Problems with Stratospheric Aerosol Injection SAI? Franz?
Sev "“ Bru: Nitrate fertilization could increase biomass between 3 and 7 times?
Bru "“ Seafields "“ Sargassum farming in Atlantic "“ Sebastian Stevens
Clive "“ Cloud cooling info "“ Alan Gadian
- Biosphere self-regulation by transpiration release of airborne particles
- Interconnection between plants \u0026 fungi "“ c.f. quantum system / entanglement?
- Complex adaptive theory
COP27 "“ News? Anything? HPAC activities.
Chat
20:27:04 From Bru Pearce : https://www.theenergymix.com/2022/11/06/free-for-all-carbon-removals-plan-at-cop-27-sidelines-human-rights/
20:27:39 From Bru Pearce : An administrative decision on carbon removals, adopted in the dead of night with no community input, is raising alarm with experts attending the COP 27 climate summit in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt.
20:28:15 From Bru Pearce : As well, "including "˜oceans"™ as a possible sink with no further limitations opens the door to dangerous and far-reaching options such as ocean fertilization," ECO writes. "While some niche practices that restore damaged ocean ecosystems (seagrass, salt marshes, mangroves) could play a useful role in removing GHGs through anthropogenic actions, the proposed language is too broad and goes much beyond those activities."
20:42:29 From Robert Tulip : https://www.blue-economy.co.uk/special-report-blue-carbon
20:43:47 From Robert Tulip : https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2202230119 D. G. MacMartin, D. Visioni , B. Kravitz, J.H. Richter, T. Felgenhauer, W. R. Lee, D. R. Morrow, E. A. Parson, and M. Sugiyama, Scenarios for modeling solar radiation modification, Proceedings of the National Academy of Science, August 2022
20:48:05 From Robert Tulip :

Robert T "“ Iron Salt Aerosol not mentioned in GeoMIP - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=732
Franz "“ SAI will reduce marine clouds - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=1876
Clive "“ Cooking stoves, could be important for reducing Arctic BC - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=3248
John N "“ Report on F4CR meeting on Saturday - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=3723
Sev "“ ChatGPT - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=3942
Rebecca "“ UNEP report "“ misguided? (Not so much, if you read towards the end.) - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=4777
Sev "“ Public availability of email exchanges - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=5404
----
Chat
21:03:38 From Sev Clarke : UNEP https://wedocs.unep.org/bitstream/handle/20.500.11822/41903/one_atmosphere.pdf?sequence=3\u0026isAllowed=y
21:05:22 From Robert Tulip : Atmos. Chem. Phys., 23, 5149"“5176, 2023
https://doi.org/10.5194/acp-23-5149-2023
Opinion: The scientific and community-building roles of the Geoengineering Model Intercomparison Project (GeoMIP) "“ past, present, and future
Daniele Visioni1, Ben Kravitz2,3, Alan Robock4, Simone Tilmes5, Jim Haywood6,7, Olivier Boucher8,
Mark Lawrence9,19, Peter Irvine10, Ulrike Niemeier11, Lili Xia4, Gabriel Chiodo12, Chris Lennard13,
ShingoWatanabe14, John C. Moore15,16,17, and Helene Muri18
22:03:01 From Robert Chris : Sorry, have to leave. I'll try to catch up on the recording. I'm particularly interested in the ChatGPT discussion.
22:12:44 From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : ""¦while AI's knowledge base can be impressive and extensive, it is crucial to recognize its limitations and the need for human discernment and critical thinking in interpreting and evaluating the information generated by AI."
22:26:12 From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : Daniel Harrison
22:29:04 From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : google Daniel Harrison great barrier reef marine cloud brightening
22:31:13 From Paul Anderson : The podcast linked below is exceptionally informative. All 50 minutes should be heard by anyone interested in planet cooling and Marine Cloud Brightening (MCB).
Includes 2020 pilot at the Great Barrier Reef. And ongoing work. Podcast dated 2023, so it is recent. A welcome ray of hope in the climate struggle.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/29-daniel-harrison-on-marine-cloud-brightening-and-the-rrap/id1593211714?i=1000598417935

Robert T "“ Iron Salt Aerosol not mentioned in GeoMIP - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=732
Franz "“ SAI will reduce marine clouds - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=1876
Clive "“ Cooking stoves, could be important for reducing Arctic BC - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=3248
John N "“ Report on F4CR meeting on Saturday - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=3723
Sev "“ ChatGPT - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=3942
Rebecca "“ UNEP report "“ misguided? (Not so much, if you read towards the end.) - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=4777
Sev "“ Public availability of email exchanges - https://youtu.be/oS4jFd5JxgI?t=5404
----
Chat
21:03:38 From Sev Clarke : UNEP https://wedocs.unep.org/bitstream/handle/20.500.11822/41903/one_atmosphere.pdf?sequence=3\u0026isAllowed=y
21:05:22 From Robert Tulip : Atmos. Chem. Phys., 23, 5149"“5176, 2023
https://doi.org/10.5194/acp-23-5149-2023
Opinion: The scientific and community-building roles of the Geoengineering Model Intercomparison Project (GeoMIP) "“ past, present, and future
Daniele Visioni1, Ben Kravitz2,3, Alan Robock4, Simone Tilmes5, Jim Haywood6,7, Olivier Boucher8,
Mark Lawrence9,19, Peter Irvine10, Ulrike Niemeier11, Lili Xia4, Gabriel Chiodo12, Chris Lennard13,
ShingoWatanabe14, John C. Moore15,16,17, and Helene Muri18
22:03:01 From Robert Chris : Sorry, have to leave. I'll try to catch up on the recording. I'm particularly interested in the ChatGPT discussion.
22:12:44 From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : ""¦while AI's knowledge base can be impressive and extensive, it is crucial to recognize its limitations and the need for human discernment and critical thinking in interpreting and evaluating the information generated by AI."
22:26:12 From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : Daniel Harrison
22:29:04 From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : google Daniel Harrison great barrier reef marine cloud brightening
22:31:13 From Paul Anderson : The podcast linked below is exceptionally informative. All 50 minutes should be heard by anyone interested in planet cooling and Marine Cloud Brightening (MCB).
Includes 2020 pilot at the Great Barrier Reef. And ongoing work. Podcast dated 2023, so it is recent. A welcome ray of hope in the climate struggle.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/29-daniel-harrison-on-marine-cloud-brightening-and-the-rrap/id1593211714?i=1000598417935

Agenda
Chris GESAMP Report Press Release from IMO
BBC Report Big Seaweed Farm Sargassum South Atlantic
Sev - Trichodesmium cyanobacterium
Cost comparison brightening planet v cutting emissions
COP27 "“ Ocean Pavilion
Concert
From Chris Vivian to Everyone: 07:09 AM
IMP Press Release - https://www.imo.org/en/MediaCentre/PressBriefings/pages/Marine-geoengineering.aspx
From mycomputer to Everyone: 07:09 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichodesmium
From Chris Vivian to Everyone: 07:09 AM
BBC News story about Seafields https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-63200589
From Me to Everyone: 07:30 AM
https://oceanvisions.org/our-programs/macroalgaeresearchframework/
From Chris Vivian to Everyone: 07:31 AM
https://doi.org/10.1038/nature09950
From Chris Vivian to Everyone: 07:53 AM
Ocean deserts are growing - https://doi.org/10.1038/news.2008.795
Regional Geoengineering Using Tiny Glass Bubbles Would Accelerate the Loss of Arctic Sea Ice - https://doi.org/10.1029/2022EF002815
From Me to Everyone: 08:00 AM
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Chevron-CEO-Blames-Climate-Policies-For-Global-Energy-Crisis.html
From Chris Vivian to Everyone: 08:03 AM
You might be interested in this post - Climate scientists: concept of net zero is a dangerous trap - https://theconversation.com/climate-scientists-concept-of-net-zero-is-a-dangerous-trap-157368
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/companies/RussGeorge/2013/20140224HSRC-vs-Russ-George-counterclaim.pdf
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/companies/RussGeorge/Russ-George-Low-Energy-Nuclear-Reaction-Research-LENR-and-Plankton-Carbon-Credit.shtml

Agenda
Chris GESAMP Report Press Release from IMO
BBC Report Big Seaweed Farm Sargassum South Atlantic
Sev - Trichodesmium cyanobacterium
Cost comparison brightening planet v cutting emissions
COP27 "“ Ocean Pavilion
Concert
From Chris Vivian to Everyone: 07:09 AM
IMP Press Release - https://www.imo.org/en/MediaCentre/PressBriefings/pages/Marine-geoengineering.aspx
From mycomputer to Everyone: 07:09 AM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trichodesmium
From Chris Vivian to Everyone: 07:09 AM
BBC News story about Seafields https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-63200589
From Me to Everyone: 07:30 AM
https://oceanvisions.org/our-programs/macroalgaeresearchframework/
From Chris Vivian to Everyone: 07:31 AM
https://doi.org/10.1038/nature09950
From Chris Vivian to Everyone: 07:53 AM
Ocean deserts are growing - https://doi.org/10.1038/news.2008.795
Regional Geoengineering Using Tiny Glass Bubbles Would Accelerate the Loss of Arctic Sea Ice - https://doi.org/10.1029/2022EF002815
From Me to Everyone: 08:00 AM
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Chevron-CEO-Blames-Climate-Policies-For-Global-Energy-Crisis.html
From Chris Vivian to Everyone: 08:03 AM
You might be interested in this post - Climate scientists: concept of net zero is a dangerous trap - https://theconversation.com/climate-scientists-concept-of-net-zero-is-a-dangerous-trap-157368
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/companies/RussGeorge/2013/20140224HSRC-vs-Russ-George-counterclaim.pdf
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/companies/RussGeorge/Russ-George-Low-Energy-Nuclear-Reaction-Research-LENR-and-Plankton-Carbon-Credit.shtml

Agenda
Robert T - Overshoot commission report
Clive "“ 2012 Cost estimate of MCB to stop the ice melting "“ and how to calculate the extra energy reflection needed
John M "“ Why not replace SO2 aerosols with an alternative aerosol?
Herb S "“ COP28 Is anyone going? Plans?
Chat
21:26:31 From Robert Tulip : Climate Overshoot Commission Report https://www.overshootcommission.org/
21:32:52 From Robert Tulip : Brian - just go to the link I gave and scroll down one screen for the report
21:38:30 From Robert Chris : Neoliberal capitalism is in its death throes but the successor model is very unlikely to be anything that looks like Soviet communism.
21:40:53 From Hugh Hunt : Here is a report from Sept 2023 by Operaatio Arktis, a Finland youth group. All about Climate Repair. They have written a much better thing that the Overshoot Commission:
https://www.operaatioarktis.fi/_files/ugd/b0f58b_96b487a826a84aae9d7a3b96bb80f048.pdf
21:41:04 From Robert Tulip : Robert, part of the problem is that geoengineering is perceived precisely as a means to enable no systemic change. I use

Agenda
Robert T - Overshoot commission report
Clive "“ 2012 Cost estimate of MCB to stop the ice melting "“ and how to calculate the extra energy reflection needed
John M "“ Why not replace SO2 aerosols with an alternative aerosol?
Herb S "“ COP28 Is anyone going? Plans?
Chat
21:26:31 From Robert Tulip : Climate Overshoot Commission Report https://www.overshootcommission.org/
21:32:52 From Robert Tulip : Brian - just go to the link I gave and scroll down one screen for the report
21:38:30 From Robert Chris : Neoliberal capitalism is in its death throes but the successor model is very unlikely to be anything that looks like Soviet communism.
21:40:53 From Hugh Hunt : Here is a report from Sept 2023 by Operaatio Arktis, a Finland youth group. All about Climate Repair. They have written a much better thing that the Overshoot Commission:
https://www.operaatioarktis.fi/_files/ugd/b0f58b_96b487a826a84aae9d7a3b96bb80f048.pdf
21:41:04 From Robert Tulip : Robert, part of the problem is that geoengineering is perceived precisely as a means to enable no systemic change. I use

Agenda
Sev – attacks on climate restoration proposers
Chris – Sinking seaweed is beyond the science and ethics
Brian – update on field trials – marine permaculture
Sev – Antarctic ice – worsening – biggest shelf now under threat – East Antarctica
Chris – Frozen planet 2 – focusing on Arctic ice (BBC iPlayer)
Chat
21:06:20 From Chris Vivian : https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ac82ff
21:15:24 From DV Henkel-Wallace : https://archive.ph/OsW9g
21:31:20 From John Nissen : Sea level rise from Antarctica is coming to the fore: https://nypost.com/2022/09/07/antarctica-doomsday-glacier-hanging-on-by-its-fingernails/
21:45:52 From John Nissen : Thwaites could collapse within a few years, producing several feet of SLR.
21:56:04 From Chris Vivian : https://www.science.org/doi/epdf/10.1126/sciadv.abn2465
22:09:31 From Chris Vivian : https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02168-y#:~:text=But%20over%20the%20past%20ten,pinpoint%20the%20processes%20driving%20it.
22:17:03 From DV Henkel-Wallace : Have to drop off — good call this week.
22:26:25 From Chris Vivian : https://methaneaction.org/
22:27:30 From Chris Vivian : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbvK6JuF_tjD9bEBZ1FCfyA - see this recording of the methane action conference

Agenda
Sev – attacks on climate restoration proposers
Chris – Sinking seaweed is beyond the science and ethics
Brian – update on field trials – marine permaculture
Sev – Antarctic ice – worsening – biggest shelf now under threat – East Antarctica
Chris – Frozen planet 2 – focusing on Arctic ice (BBC iPlayer)
Chat
21:06:20 From Chris Vivian : https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ac82ff
21:15:24 From DV Henkel-Wallace : https://archive.ph/OsW9g
21:31:20 From John Nissen : Sea level rise from Antarctica is coming to the fore: https://nypost.com/2022/09/07/antarctica-doomsday-glacier-hanging-on-by-its-fingernails/
21:45:52 From John Nissen : Thwaites could collapse within a few years, producing several feet of SLR.
21:56:04 From Chris Vivian : https://www.science.org/doi/epdf/10.1126/sciadv.abn2465
22:09:31 From Chris Vivian : https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-02168-y#:~:text=But%20over%20the%20past%20ten,pinpoint%20the%20processes%20driving%20it.
22:17:03 From DV Henkel-Wallace : Have to drop off — good call this week.
22:26:25 From Chris Vivian : https://methaneaction.org/
22:27:30 From Chris Vivian : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbvK6JuF_tjD9bEBZ1FCfyA - see this recording of the methane action conference

Agenda
Sev "“ What is Spark Climate looking at for methane removal?
Grant "“ The search for political sponsorship.
Sev "“ Project updates?
Robert C "“ Robert T UK trip.
Chat
21:47:02 From Mannajo Greene : I am both a politician and an activist -- not out for political gain (votes) or personal gain. Out for promoting truthful information.
22:04:03 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : Stephen"™s 2m pounds is an ask, not secured funding. I"™m not sure what is in the project proposal; agree need to ask Stephen
22:08:00 From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : Yes, that is my understanding "¦ he said he could build and test for ï¿¡2M
22:11:14 From Robert Tulip : https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/29-daniel-harrison-on-marine-cloud-brightening-and-the-rrap/id1593211714?i=1000598417935
22:15:34 From Robert Tulip : UK Visit - I could meet people in London on 20 May, Edinburgh 29 May to 1 June, and London/Cambridge 3-7 June.
22:31:36 From Chris Vivian : https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/151197/kamchatka-erupts

Agenda
Sev "“ What is Spark Climate looking at for methane removal?
Grant "“ The search for political sponsorship.
Sev "“ Project updates?
Robert C "“ Robert T UK trip.
Chat
21:47:02 From Mannajo Greene : I am both a politician and an activist -- not out for political gain (votes) or personal gain. Out for promoting truthful information.
22:04:03 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : Stephen"™s 2m pounds is an ask, not secured funding. I"™m not sure what is in the project proposal; agree need to ask Stephen
22:08:00 From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : Yes, that is my understanding "¦ he said he could build and test for ï¿¡2M
22:11:14 From Robert Tulip : https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/29-daniel-harrison-on-marine-cloud-brightening-and-the-rrap/id1593211714?i=1000598417935
22:15:34 From Robert Tulip : UK Visit - I could meet people in London on 20 May, Edinburgh 29 May to 1 June, and London/Cambridge 3-7 June.
22:31:36 From Chris Vivian : https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/151197/kamchatka-erupts

Agenda
Andrew Lockley - Luke Iseman, Making sunsets balloon
Franz "“ Lee paper, hydrogen peroxide to produce chlorine radicals "“ even from MCB
Iron Salt Aerosol "“ MIT article
Sev "“ NOAC consensus
Chat
20:01:59 From Sev Clarke : https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1911883116
20:27:28 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Link to h2o2 paper?
20:27:57 From Sev Clarke : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1e6i61Zpy0XI5Dw8gMqZ4_A0o6intOLgp/edit
21:06:51 From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : looks like John is not going to drop in "¦ next time "¦ cheers!
21:10:58 From Robert Tulip : The report defined 'sustainable development' as

Agenda
Andrew Lockley - Luke Iseman, Making sunsets balloon
Franz "“ Lee paper, hydrogen peroxide to produce chlorine radicals "“ even from MCB
Iron Salt Aerosol "“ MIT article
Sev "“ NOAC consensus
Chat
20:01:59 From Sev Clarke : https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1911883116
20:27:28 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Link to h2o2 paper?
20:27:57 From Sev Clarke : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1e6i61Zpy0XI5Dw8gMqZ4_A0o6intOLgp/edit
21:06:51 From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : looks like John is not going to drop in "¦ next time "¦ cheers!
21:10:58 From Robert Tulip : The report defined 'sustainable development' as

Agenda
Anton, Bruce "“ NOAC website
Bru "“ three cheers to Equador
Chris "“ Climate Arks falls under London protocol amendment
- Concepts on how it might be used
Chat
21:16:54 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Regarding DMS, this journal issue that has almost all its papers about the CLAW hypothesis:\rhttps://www.publish.csiro.au/EN/issue/3787/. Also, see this paper Rapid cloud removal of dimethyl sulfide oxidation products limits SO2 and cloud condensation nuclei production in the marine atmosphere - https://www.pnas.org/content/118/42/e2110472118 and https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/10/211011151110.htm.
\r21:44:40 From Anton : Bruce is building it, actually
\r21:51:14 From Hans van der Loo : Instead of videos we use animations on our website\r
21:51:18 From Hans van der Loo : https://youtu.be/MKR925xz_R4\r
21:55:38 From Hans van der Loo : https://www.stopecocide.earth/breaking-news-2023/european-parliament-proposes-including-ecocide-in-eu-law\r
22:25:23 From Robert Tulip : Healthy Planet Action Coalition meeting this Thursday August 24, 4:30 PM EDT (= 9.30 pm UK = 6.30 am Friday Australia AEST )\r
Chris Vivian: Ocean Carbon Dioxide Removal and Governance \rMeeting link https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88954851189?pwd=WVZoeTBnN3kyZFoyLzYxZ1JNbDFPUT09\rResume: http://www.gesamp.org/about/members/chris-vivian

Agenda
Anton, Bruce "“ NOAC website
Bru "“ three cheers to Equador
Chris "“ Climate Arks falls under London protocol amendment
- Concepts on how it might be used
Chat
21:16:54 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Regarding DMS, this journal issue that has almost all its papers about the CLAW hypothesis:\rhttps://www.publish.csiro.au/EN/issue/3787/. Also, see this paper Rapid cloud removal of dimethyl sulfide oxidation products limits SO2 and cloud condensation nuclei production in the marine atmosphere - https://www.pnas.org/content/118/42/e2110472118 and https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/10/211011151110.htm.
\r21:44:40 From Anton : Bruce is building it, actually
\r21:51:14 From Hans van der Loo : Instead of videos we use animations on our website\r
21:51:18 From Hans van der Loo : https://youtu.be/MKR925xz_R4\r
21:55:38 From Hans van der Loo : https://www.stopecocide.earth/breaking-news-2023/european-parliament-proposes-including-ecocide-in-eu-law\r
22:25:23 From Robert Tulip : Healthy Planet Action Coalition meeting this Thursday August 24, 4:30 PM EDT (= 9.30 pm UK = 6.30 am Friday Australia AEST )\r
Chris Vivian: Ocean Carbon Dioxide Removal and Governance \rMeeting link https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88954851189?pwd=WVZoeTBnN3kyZFoyLzYxZ1JNbDFPUT09\rResume: http://www.gesamp.org/about/members/chris-vivian

Agenda
Stephen "“ Mexican ban on solar geoengineering
Clive "“ critical path to climate stability
Sev "“ NOAC consensus?

Agenda
Stephen "“ Mexican ban on solar geoengineering
Clive "“ critical path to climate stability
Sev "“ NOAC consensus?

Agenda
Clive - Climate Catalyst slides, DMS to make more marine clouds? Floating corals?
Ron "“ SO2 loss is warming the oceans? Hausfather doubts it.
Bru "“ The ocean has got greener? In places. Dryden"™s work on ocean surface pollution. Brian "“ changes in ocean temperature affecting phytoplankton population dynamics.
No time to discuss:
John N "“ Reasons for sudden increases in surface temperatures NH and SH, Arctic, Antarctic. Brian "“ Changes in cloud cover,
Bru "“ Fire impacts, Rebecca "“ fire management.
Chat
21:29:34 From Herb Simmens : https://news.exeter.ac.uk/faculty-of-environment-science-and-economy/tipping-points-can-be-triggered-unexpectedly-by-dangerous-rates-of-change/
21:30:27 From Ron Baiman : Thanks Herb! Interesting.
21:31:24 From Bru Pearce : https://www.windy.com/-Clouds-clouds?clouds,15.670,163.799,4,i:pressure
21:43:18 From Ron Baiman : This is Hausfather report claiming that DMS in northern hemisphere shipping lanes largely saturates potential of increasing cloud cover with sulfur aerosols: https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-how-low-sulphur-shipping-rules-are-affecting-global-warming/
21:46:46 From Clive Elsworth : Chlorophyl vs Cloud map: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/global-maps/MY1DMM_CHLORA/MODAL2_M_CLD_FR
21:50:08 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Reacted to

Agenda
Clive - Climate Catalyst slides, DMS to make more marine clouds? Floating corals?
Ron "“ SO2 loss is warming the oceans? Hausfather doubts it.
Bru "“ The ocean has got greener? In places. Dryden"™s work on ocean surface pollution. Brian "“ changes in ocean temperature affecting phytoplankton population dynamics.
No time to discuss:
John N "“ Reasons for sudden increases in surface temperatures NH and SH, Arctic, Antarctic. Brian "“ Changes in cloud cover,
Bru "“ Fire impacts, Rebecca "“ fire management.
Chat
21:29:34 From Herb Simmens : https://news.exeter.ac.uk/faculty-of-environment-science-and-economy/tipping-points-can-be-triggered-unexpectedly-by-dangerous-rates-of-change/
21:30:27 From Ron Baiman : Thanks Herb! Interesting.
21:31:24 From Bru Pearce : https://www.windy.com/-Clouds-clouds?clouds,15.670,163.799,4,i:pressure
21:43:18 From Ron Baiman : This is Hausfather report claiming that DMS in northern hemisphere shipping lanes largely saturates potential of increasing cloud cover with sulfur aerosols: https://www.carbonbrief.org/analysis-how-low-sulphur-shipping-rules-are-affecting-global-warming/
21:46:46 From Clive Elsworth : Chlorophyl vs Cloud map: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/global-maps/MY1DMM_CHLORA/MODAL2_M_CLD_FR
21:50:08 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Reacted to

Agenda
Anton - Climate solutions website
Clive "“ High Sea Surface Temperatures
Rebecca / Robert C "“ CCRC MCB progress
Sev "“ Turquoise hydrogen
John M "“ Nutrient Upweller
Chris V "“ Co-removing methane CO2
Chat
21:01:08 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : Hello Franz, nice to see you :-)
21:03:16 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : This sounds wonderful, thanks Anton.
21:09:37 From mycomputer : https://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/2023/06/20/a-new-hydrogen-from-methane-via-pyrolysis-without-the-co2-release/
21:10:01 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-2959117/v1
21:10:11 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : I'm going to turn off my camera as I need to eat breakfast; I'm going to a conference with registration 8-9am. I'll switch it on if I'm going to speak :-)
21:10:51 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Solar chimney - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0038092X23003675
21:32:01 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : Thank you for such a clear statement of the questions, Anton, and your statement of

Agenda
Anton - Climate solutions website
Clive "“ High Sea Surface Temperatures
Rebecca / Robert C "“ CCRC MCB progress
Sev "“ Turquoise hydrogen
John M "“ Nutrient Upweller
Chris V "“ Co-removing methane CO2
Chat
21:01:08 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : Hello Franz, nice to see you :-)
21:03:16 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : This sounds wonderful, thanks Anton.
21:09:37 From mycomputer : https://www.biofuelsdigest.com/bdigest/2023/06/20/a-new-hydrogen-from-methane-via-pyrolysis-without-the-co2-release/
21:10:01 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-2959117/v1
21:10:11 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : I'm going to turn off my camera as I need to eat breakfast; I'm going to a conference with registration 8-9am. I'll switch it on if I'm going to speak :-)
21:10:51 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Solar chimney - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0038092X23003675
21:32:01 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : Thank you for such a clear statement of the questions, Anton, and your statement of

Agenda
Chris V "“ Items in Chat:
- COP28 "“ Ocean related events
- Nature comms paper: Loss of aerosols is worse than GHG
John N/Bruce P - Why do scientists reach different conclusions from same data - champions of the anomalies?
Greg S "“ Is there a cognitive split in the perception of global warming, like there"™s plenty of time?
Chat
20:03:46 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : COP28 Dubai Ocean Declaration - https://oceanpavilion-cop.org/dubai-ocean-declaration/\rHow COP28 can help accelerate research around the ocean's carbon removal potential - https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/11/ocean-carbon-dioxide-removal-research-cop28/\rCOP28 - Climate Ocean Pavilion - https://cop28oceanpavilion.vfairs.com/en/hall \rCOP28 - Climate Ocean Pavilion "“ Programme -https://oceanpavilion.app.swapcard.com/event/cop28/plannings/RXZlbnRWaWV3XzY1MjgxOA==?aggregationId=eyJkYXRhIjp7InJhbmdlIjpbMTcwMTQ4OTYwMCwxNzAxNTc2MDAwXX19\r20:07:28 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : See this recent paper Aerosols overtake greenhouse gases causing a warmer climate and more weather extremes toward carbon neutrality - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-42891-2

Agenda
Chris V "“ Items in Chat:
- COP28 "“ Ocean related events
- Nature comms paper: Loss of aerosols is worse than GHG
John N/Bruce P - Why do scientists reach different conclusions from same data - champions of the anomalies?
Greg S "“ Is there a cognitive split in the perception of global warming, like there"™s plenty of time?
Chat
20:03:46 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : COP28 Dubai Ocean Declaration - https://oceanpavilion-cop.org/dubai-ocean-declaration/\rHow COP28 can help accelerate research around the ocean's carbon removal potential - https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/11/ocean-carbon-dioxide-removal-research-cop28/\rCOP28 - Climate Ocean Pavilion - https://cop28oceanpavilion.vfairs.com/en/hall \rCOP28 - Climate Ocean Pavilion "“ Programme -https://oceanpavilion.app.swapcard.com/event/cop28/plannings/RXZlbnRWaWV3XzY1MjgxOA==?aggregationId=eyJkYXRhIjp7InJhbmdlIjpbMTcwMTQ4OTYwMCwxNzAxNTc2MDAwXX19\r20:07:28 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : See this recent paper Aerosols overtake greenhouse gases causing a warmer climate and more weather extremes toward carbon neutrality - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-42891-2

Agenda
Chris – COP27
Brian - Grand XPRIZE for carbon removal
Sev – document
John N – paper
20:07:17 From DV Henkel-Wallace : Alliance of Small Island States www.aosis.org
20:14:42 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Aside from PEM membranes, why go from ch4 to h2?
20:15:26 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Wouldn’t green methane be far more valuable?
20:16:07 From Sev Clarke : because the nanocabon co-product would reduce the h2 cost
20:17:38 From Dr Brian von Herzen : But at energy storage cost
20:17:44 From Dr Brian von Herzen : And at energy loss per m3
20:19:02 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Hawaii has hydrogen injection up to 50% over the past decade
20:19:26 From Sev Clarke : you store the methane at low cost then use renewable energy to generate on site on demand bliue green hydrogen
20:19:50 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Or just use the methane directly?
20:21:01 From Sev Clarke : but not to burn as that releases ghg emissions
20:22:33 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Read “moving to higher ground” for a recent discussion of having to abandon islands-
20:26:30 From Chris Vivian : This Guardian article is interesting as I don’t think
Melting point: could ‘cloud brightening’ slow the thawing of the Arctic?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/27/melting-point-could-cloud-brightening-slow-the-thawing-of-the-arctic?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
20:29:27 From Dr Brian von Herzen : If you go down 1000 meters, the rise in temperature is much smaller, no?
20:32:41 From Robert Tulip : A brighter planet could increase the ice mass of the cryosphere to reverse sea level rise at century time scale.
20:33:06 From Tara Vamos : Tara@ItsAllAboutMovement.com
20:33:44 From Dr Brian von Herzen : 1 @robert
20:43:19 From Dr Brian von Herzen : First problem is buoyancy?
20:46:07 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Cooling the planet- deep cycling results in primary production, resulting in DMS production ,resulting in marine cloud brightening!
20:50:20 From Dr Brian von Herzen : That didn’t stop Greenpeace from suing victor Smetachek in high court in Germany under the London Protocol presumably?
20:51:07 From Dr Brian von Herzen : bicatch
20:53:33 From Dr Brian von Herzen : .06 ignores specular reflection?
21:07:28 From Sev Clarke : no it does not. see how it ws calculated
21:09:53 From Zoom user : Great document Sev. Some of your images with each might help to convey the concepts.
21:11:10 From Chris Vivian : See this paper about MCB: 'Marine cloud brightening; as effective without clouds' - https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/17/13071/2017/acp-17-13071-2017.html
21:13:23 From Zoom user : https://arcticdata.io/catalog/portals/ArcticTides
21:18:04 From Sev Clarke : My Moresolsv4 document provides the graphics
21:18:41 From Chris Vivian : Arctic tidal atlas https://www.nature.com/articles/s41597-020-00578-z

Agenda
Chris – COP27
Brian - Grand XPRIZE for carbon removal
Sev – document
John N – paper
20:07:17 From DV Henkel-Wallace : Alliance of Small Island States www.aosis.org
20:14:42 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Aside from PEM membranes, why go from ch4 to h2?
20:15:26 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Wouldn’t green methane be far more valuable?
20:16:07 From Sev Clarke : because the nanocabon co-product would reduce the h2 cost
20:17:38 From Dr Brian von Herzen : But at energy storage cost
20:17:44 From Dr Brian von Herzen : And at energy loss per m3
20:19:02 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Hawaii has hydrogen injection up to 50% over the past decade
20:19:26 From Sev Clarke : you store the methane at low cost then use renewable energy to generate on site on demand bliue green hydrogen
20:19:50 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Or just use the methane directly?
20:21:01 From Sev Clarke : but not to burn as that releases ghg emissions
20:22:33 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Read “moving to higher ground” for a recent discussion of having to abandon islands-
20:26:30 From Chris Vivian : This Guardian article is interesting as I don’t think
Melting point: could ‘cloud brightening’ slow the thawing of the Arctic?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/27/melting-point-could-cloud-brightening-slow-the-thawing-of-the-arctic?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
20:29:27 From Dr Brian von Herzen : If you go down 1000 meters, the rise in temperature is much smaller, no?
20:32:41 From Robert Tulip : A brighter planet could increase the ice mass of the cryosphere to reverse sea level rise at century time scale.
20:33:06 From Tara Vamos : Tara@ItsAllAboutMovement.com
20:33:44 From Dr Brian von Herzen : 1 @robert
20:43:19 From Dr Brian von Herzen : First problem is buoyancy?
20:46:07 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Cooling the planet- deep cycling results in primary production, resulting in DMS production ,resulting in marine cloud brightening!
20:50:20 From Dr Brian von Herzen : That didn’t stop Greenpeace from suing victor Smetachek in high court in Germany under the London Protocol presumably?
20:51:07 From Dr Brian von Herzen : bicatch
20:53:33 From Dr Brian von Herzen : .06 ignores specular reflection?
21:07:28 From Sev Clarke : no it does not. see how it ws calculated
21:09:53 From Zoom user : Great document Sev. Some of your images with each might help to convey the concepts.
21:11:10 From Chris Vivian : See this paper about MCB: 'Marine cloud brightening; as effective without clouds' - https://acp.copernicus.org/articles/17/13071/2017/acp-17-13071-2017.html
21:13:23 From Zoom user : https://arcticdata.io/catalog/portals/ArcticTides
21:18:04 From Sev Clarke : My Moresolsv4 document provides the graphics
21:18:41 From Chris Vivian : Arctic tidal atlas https://www.nature.com/articles/s41597-020-00578-z

Agenda
Robert C "“ Hansen 10C warming in the pipeline
John N "“ CO2 removal / warming - which follows which?
Chris V "“ UNFCCC CO2 removal document A6.4 group
Robert T "“ CCRC Tue 6th June conference - Albedo enhance, Arctic refreeze
Rebecca - Bruce Parker "“ emissions projections
Clive "“ Black carbon "“ low hanging fruit
Sev "“ Pinebank assessment, situation and solutions
John N - Changing the narrative to albedo enhancement / SRM
Chat
21:15:23 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : What convivial and productive group dynamics we have this morning :-)
21:20:21 From Mannajo Greene : Reacted to

Agenda
Robert C "“ Hansen 10C warming in the pipeline
John N "“ CO2 removal / warming - which follows which?
Chris V "“ UNFCCC CO2 removal document A6.4 group
Robert T "“ CCRC Tue 6th June conference - Albedo enhance, Arctic refreeze
Rebecca - Bruce Parker "“ emissions projections
Clive "“ Black carbon "“ low hanging fruit
Sev "“ Pinebank assessment, situation and solutions
John N - Changing the narrative to albedo enhancement / SRM
Chat
21:15:23 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : What convivial and productive group dynamics we have this morning :-)
21:20:21 From Mannajo Greene : Reacted to

Agenda
- Clive – Use of waterspouts to cool the ocean
Atmospheric vortex engine Michaud
- Chris V – Two reports – High level panel, ETC group about seaweed
- Brian – Jim Hansen’s July report
 the climate dice are now heavily loaded
 Flying blind – Aug report
- Hugh H - Methane – discussion – better observations – Ag emissions in China and India are growing (not discussed)
Chat
21:06:50 From John Macdonald : Clive
Unfortunately there are many more ‘Infrequently asked questions’!
21:13:19 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : The 2 reports https://oceanpanel.org/publication/ocean-solutions-to-climate-change/#:~:text=Spanish%20Chinese%20French-,The%20Ocean%20as%20a%20Solution%20to%20Climate%20Change:%20Updated%20Opportunities,°C%20pathway%20in%202050. and https://etcgroup.org/content/seaweed-delusion.
21:15:02 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : ETC report again https://etcgroup.org/sites/www.etcgroup.org/files/files/algae_report-en-web-20-sept.pdf
21:16:49 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Hansen's recent paper 'Global Warming is Accelerating. Why? Will We Fly Blind? https://mailchi.mp/caa/global-warming-is-accelerating-why-will-we-fly-blind?fbclid=IwAR20XAIBpQXY6Av_0CC121ddIPL9KE3UmnvgDyLxRuEGlY7lLBuk352vKhs
21:18:30 From Hugh Hunt : if expts on SAI are impossible (eg SCOPEX) then I can't imagine how we'd get experiments going on water spouts ...
21:40:43 From John Macdonald : Excellent rebuttal Brian!
21:45:09 From Hugh Hunt : CCR is not headed by David King
21:51:36 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Reacted to Excellent rebuttal B... with

Agenda
- Clive – Use of waterspouts to cool the ocean
Atmospheric vortex engine Michaud
- Chris V – Two reports – High level panel, ETC group about seaweed
- Brian – Jim Hansen’s July report
 the climate dice are now heavily loaded
 Flying blind – Aug report
- Hugh H - Methane – discussion – better observations – Ag emissions in China and India are growing (not discussed)
Chat
21:06:50 From John Macdonald : Clive
Unfortunately there are many more ‘Infrequently asked questions’!
21:13:19 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : The 2 reports https://oceanpanel.org/publication/ocean-solutions-to-climate-change/#:~:text=Spanish%20Chinese%20French-,The%20Ocean%20as%20a%20Solution%20to%20Climate%20Change:%20Updated%20Opportunities,°C%20pathway%20in%202050. and https://etcgroup.org/content/seaweed-delusion.
21:15:02 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : ETC report again https://etcgroup.org/sites/www.etcgroup.org/files/files/algae_report-en-web-20-sept.pdf
21:16:49 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Hansen's recent paper 'Global Warming is Accelerating. Why? Will We Fly Blind? https://mailchi.mp/caa/global-warming-is-accelerating-why-will-we-fly-blind?fbclid=IwAR20XAIBpQXY6Av_0CC121ddIPL9KE3UmnvgDyLxRuEGlY7lLBuk352vKhs
21:18:30 From Hugh Hunt : if expts on SAI are impossible (eg SCOPEX) then I can't imagine how we'd get experiments going on water spouts ...
21:40:43 From John Macdonald : Excellent rebuttal Brian!
21:45:09 From Hugh Hunt : CCR is not headed by David King
21:51:36 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Reacted to Excellent rebuttal B... with

Agenda
John M - Ocean abundance is problematic?
Clive "“ ocean acidification?
Stephen "“ Energy for MCB vs Energy reflected
"“ Explain insolation diagram
John M - Atmospheric river over Australia, Warm weather in Europe
Sev "“ Who is going to COP27? Hopes?
Stephen "“ SAI conference in Colorado

Agenda
John M - Ocean abundance is problematic?
Clive "“ ocean acidification?
Stephen "“ Energy for MCB vs Energy reflected
"“ Explain insolation diagram
John M - Atmospheric river over Australia, Warm weather in Europe
Sev "“ Who is going to COP27? Hopes?
Stephen "“ SAI conference in Colorado

AGENDA
John N "“ Letter to Jim Hansen
Franz "“ Metta Spencer Pugwash show
Clive "“ New fossil fuel extraction "“ China issues 106 GW new of coal permits (China Uncensored video)
John M "“ Sewage discharge to coastal areas. Better to discharge further out?
Sev "“ Better assessment of technologies "“ criteria for better evaluation
John N - Desperately need research on SAI and MCB deployment scenarios
Chris V "“ Hamburg report, ignores tipping points in favour of social tipping point!
Doug "“ beginning to end the climate crisis "“ Michael Mann CDR comment
CHAT
21:30:22 From Herb Simmens : https://twitter.com/LeonSimons8/status/1642921996211159040?s=20
21:43:39 From Herb Simmens : I see he corrected it in a more recent tweet
22:01:57 From Sev Clarke : Hi Herb,
Further to my last suggestion, HPAC and the rest of us might consider what criteria should be used to prune the number of potential cooling technologies down to a handful which we could suggest to the proposed Advancement Office. Might I suggest that a first draft list would include something like their theoretical (list of criteria), also saved here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19g-fspBsVHEAmUXTkwBonV1JPwo_3uGr8NfH-ZQWL-k/edit?usp=sharing
"¢ FEASIBILITY
"¢ EFFECTIVENESS
"¢ TECHNICAL READINESS LEVEL OF ESSENTIAL COMPONENT TECHNOLOGIES
"¢ CRASH PROGRAM TIME TO INITIAL DEPLOYMENT
"¢ SCALABILITY
"¢ ABILITY TO BE MODELLED
"¢ LIKELY EFFECTS - POSITIVE, NEUTRAL AND NEGATIVE, including those on other DCC and CDR methods
â—¦ POTENTIAL FOR ECONOMIC BENEFITS AND COSTS
â—¦ POTENTIAL FOR ECOLOGICAL \u0026 ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS AND COSTS
â—¦ POTENTIAL FOR SOCIAL BENEFITS AND COSTS
â—¦ EFFECTS ON OTHER METHODS
"¢ TIMELINESS
"¢ RISKS - THEIR IMPACT, PROBABILITY AND MITIGATION
"¢ RESOURCES REQUIRED AND THEIR FUTURE AVAILABILITY AND COST
"¢ HOW GOVERNABLE IS THE METHOD
"¢ HOW EFFECTIVELY MIGHT MMRV WORK
"¢ RATE OF EXPECTED COOLING UNDER GLOBAL DEPLOYMENT
"¢ CAN THE COOLING BE AREA-SPECIFIC
"¢ CAN THE COOLING BE TIMELY AND SUFFICIENT ENOUGH TO AVOID MOST NEW TIPPING POINTS
"¢ WHAT CURRENT ILL EFFECTS MIGHT THE COOLING REVERSE, AND OVER WHAT TIMELINE
"¢ CAPITAL COST FOR GLOBAL DEPLOYMENT
"¢ RUNNING COST PER UNIT OF ENERGY REMOVED
"¢ END LOCATION AND RESIDENCE TIME OF THE ENERGY REMOVED
"¢ IS THE METHOD LIKELY TO BE SUBJECT TO PATENT RANSOM
"¢ REGIONS MOST SUSCEPTIBLE TO SUCH COOLING
"¢ CAN ANY ADVERSE AND PROVEN LOCAL EFFECTS BE COMPENSATED FOR
"¢ CAN LOCAL BENEFITS BE SLANTED TOWARDS THOSE MOST IN NEED
"¢ REVERSIBILITY AND TIME FOR IT TO TAKE SUBSTANTIAL EFFECT
"¢ TESTABILITY AT DIFFERENT GATED SCALES, SEASONS AND LOCATIONS
"¢ CAN THE GLOBAL SOUTH BE GIVEN THE RESOURCES TO PARTICIPATE EQUITABLY
"¢ HOW COMPELLING A STORY CAN BE MADE TO DECISION-MAKERS, INDUSTRY AND THE PUBLIC
"¢ DOES THE STORY DEPEND FIRST UPON ACCEPTANCE THAT DCC TOURNIQUETS ARE VITAL
"¢ CONFIDENCE LIMITS IN THE ABOVE
The attachment may give some ideas as to how some of these criteria might be measured
22:15:27 From Chris Vivian : IPCC uncertainty guidance https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2017/08/AR5_Uncertainty_Guidance_Note.pdf
22:17:12 From Chris Vivian : See figure 1 in the above report
22:25:49 From Ron Baiman : Probably loaded with Neoclassical (establishment) economists!
22:33:35 From Mannajo Greene : Robert Tulip's presentation this morning 5:30 a.m. my time to the Canberra Region Presbytery Social Justice Group of the Uniting Church in Australia was excellent.
22:33:46 From Herb Simmens : What Ron said is essentially what Zeke said to us last week..as I understand it"¦

AGENDA
John N "“ Letter to Jim Hansen
Franz "“ Metta Spencer Pugwash show
Clive "“ New fossil fuel extraction "“ China issues 106 GW new of coal permits (China Uncensored video)
John M "“ Sewage discharge to coastal areas. Better to discharge further out?
Sev "“ Better assessment of technologies "“ criteria for better evaluation
John N - Desperately need research on SAI and MCB deployment scenarios
Chris V "“ Hamburg report, ignores tipping points in favour of social tipping point!
Doug "“ beginning to end the climate crisis "“ Michael Mann CDR comment
CHAT
21:30:22 From Herb Simmens : https://twitter.com/LeonSimons8/status/1642921996211159040?s=20
21:43:39 From Herb Simmens : I see he corrected it in a more recent tweet
22:01:57 From Sev Clarke : Hi Herb,
Further to my last suggestion, HPAC and the rest of us might consider what criteria should be used to prune the number of potential cooling technologies down to a handful which we could suggest to the proposed Advancement Office. Might I suggest that a first draft list would include something like their theoretical (list of criteria), also saved here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19g-fspBsVHEAmUXTkwBonV1JPwo_3uGr8NfH-ZQWL-k/edit?usp=sharing
"¢ FEASIBILITY
"¢ EFFECTIVENESS
"¢ TECHNICAL READINESS LEVEL OF ESSENTIAL COMPONENT TECHNOLOGIES
"¢ CRASH PROGRAM TIME TO INITIAL DEPLOYMENT
"¢ SCALABILITY
"¢ ABILITY TO BE MODELLED
"¢ LIKELY EFFECTS - POSITIVE, NEUTRAL AND NEGATIVE, including those on other DCC and CDR methods
â—¦ POTENTIAL FOR ECONOMIC BENEFITS AND COSTS
â—¦ POTENTIAL FOR ECOLOGICAL \u0026 ENVIRONMENTAL BENEFITS AND COSTS
â—¦ POTENTIAL FOR SOCIAL BENEFITS AND COSTS
â—¦ EFFECTS ON OTHER METHODS
"¢ TIMELINESS
"¢ RISKS - THEIR IMPACT, PROBABILITY AND MITIGATION
"¢ RESOURCES REQUIRED AND THEIR FUTURE AVAILABILITY AND COST
"¢ HOW GOVERNABLE IS THE METHOD
"¢ HOW EFFECTIVELY MIGHT MMRV WORK
"¢ RATE OF EXPECTED COOLING UNDER GLOBAL DEPLOYMENT
"¢ CAN THE COOLING BE AREA-SPECIFIC
"¢ CAN THE COOLING BE TIMELY AND SUFFICIENT ENOUGH TO AVOID MOST NEW TIPPING POINTS
"¢ WHAT CURRENT ILL EFFECTS MIGHT THE COOLING REVERSE, AND OVER WHAT TIMELINE
"¢ CAPITAL COST FOR GLOBAL DEPLOYMENT
"¢ RUNNING COST PER UNIT OF ENERGY REMOVED
"¢ END LOCATION AND RESIDENCE TIME OF THE ENERGY REMOVED
"¢ IS THE METHOD LIKELY TO BE SUBJECT TO PATENT RANSOM
"¢ REGIONS MOST SUSCEPTIBLE TO SUCH COOLING
"¢ CAN ANY ADVERSE AND PROVEN LOCAL EFFECTS BE COMPENSATED FOR
"¢ CAN LOCAL BENEFITS BE SLANTED TOWARDS THOSE MOST IN NEED
"¢ REVERSIBILITY AND TIME FOR IT TO TAKE SUBSTANTIAL EFFECT
"¢ TESTABILITY AT DIFFERENT GATED SCALES, SEASONS AND LOCATIONS
"¢ CAN THE GLOBAL SOUTH BE GIVEN THE RESOURCES TO PARTICIPATE EQUITABLY
"¢ HOW COMPELLING A STORY CAN BE MADE TO DECISION-MAKERS, INDUSTRY AND THE PUBLIC
"¢ DOES THE STORY DEPEND FIRST UPON ACCEPTANCE THAT DCC TOURNIQUETS ARE VITAL
"¢ CONFIDENCE LIMITS IN THE ABOVE
The attachment may give some ideas as to how some of these criteria might be measured
22:15:27 From Chris Vivian : IPCC uncertainty guidance https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2017/08/AR5_Uncertainty_Guidance_Note.pdf
22:17:12 From Chris Vivian : See figure 1 in the above report
22:25:49 From Ron Baiman : Probably loaded with Neoclassical (establishment) economists!
22:33:35 From Mannajo Greene : Robert Tulip's presentation this morning 5:30 a.m. my time to the Canberra Region Presbytery Social Justice Group of the Uniting Church in Australia was excellent.
22:33:46 From Herb Simmens : What Ron said is essentially what Zeke said to us last week..as I understand it"¦

Agenda
Bru - feedback from Geneva keynote speech
Bru – New Legislation / research on ocean restoration
Chris – Ocean CDR reporting and verification – useful for permitting, ultimately payment. Good talk – chat link
Clive / Stephen – questions on typhoon moderation - MCB calculations
John N – Question: Who in authority is in favour of SRM – Albedo enhancement: Research? / Deployment?
Chat:
21:03:12 From Bru Pearce : The US congress has just now had new legislation introduced to put the federal government on board with us with the new “Ocean Restoration Research and Development Act 2022”. https://www.conservamerica.org/latest-news/conservamerica-welcomes-introduction-of-ocean-restoration-legislation
21:04:18 From Chris Vivian : Marine Carbon Dioxide Removal: Essential Science and Problem Solving for Measurement, Reporting, and Verification Workshop - https://www.us-ocb.org/marine-co2-removal-workshop/
21:09:26 From Chris Vivian : Excellent talk ‘MRV for Ocean-Based CDR Methods’ by Dr Jessica Cross, NOAA at https://youtu.be/VXhCa6jKsHQ
21:52:25 From Robert Tulip : Albedo has fallen by half a watt per square metre in the last twenty years. https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2021GL094888
22:04:23 From Bru Pearce : https://www.energy.gov/fecm/articles/us-department-energy-announces-30-million-remove-carbon-dioxide-air-and-oceans-and
22:06:28 From Bru Pearce : https://envisionationorg.sharepoint.com/:b:/r/sites/restorationplan/Shared%20Documents/Released/Biosphere%20Restoration%20Plan%202022.pdf?csf=1&web=1&e=8vqzyZ
22:09:00 From Dr Brian von Herzen : SharePoint not accessible
22:13:31 From Chris Vivian : https://theconversation.com/climate-scientists-concept-of-net-zero-is-a-dangerous-trap-157368
22:13:49 From Dr Brian von Herzen : thank you Robert, earthshine paper is very helpful
22:16:17 From John Nissen : Earthshine paper may be biased if looking at reflection from moon, as equator bias.
22:16:45 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Ceres data supports it
22:17:38 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Ceres shows 1w/m² decline over the same period
22:17:59 From Dr Brian von Herzen : satellite observation
22:18:43 From John Nissen : @Brian interesting!
22:19:05 From Dr Brian von Herzen : 👍
22:19:22 From John Nissen : Have they measured IR change?
22:31:51 From Bru Pearce : Good night all I have run out of steam. email me directly if you want a copy of my paper.

Agenda
Bru - feedback from Geneva keynote speech
Bru – New Legislation / research on ocean restoration
Chris – Ocean CDR reporting and verification – useful for permitting, ultimately payment. Good talk – chat link
Clive / Stephen – questions on typhoon moderation - MCB calculations
John N – Question: Who in authority is in favour of SRM – Albedo enhancement: Research? / Deployment?
Chat:
21:03:12 From Bru Pearce : The US congress has just now had new legislation introduced to put the federal government on board with us with the new “Ocean Restoration Research and Development Act 2022”. https://www.conservamerica.org/latest-news/conservamerica-welcomes-introduction-of-ocean-restoration-legislation
21:04:18 From Chris Vivian : Marine Carbon Dioxide Removal: Essential Science and Problem Solving for Measurement, Reporting, and Verification Workshop - https://www.us-ocb.org/marine-co2-removal-workshop/
21:09:26 From Chris Vivian : Excellent talk ‘MRV for Ocean-Based CDR Methods’ by Dr Jessica Cross, NOAA at https://youtu.be/VXhCa6jKsHQ
21:52:25 From Robert Tulip : Albedo has fallen by half a watt per square metre in the last twenty years. https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2021GL094888
22:04:23 From Bru Pearce : https://www.energy.gov/fecm/articles/us-department-energy-announces-30-million-remove-carbon-dioxide-air-and-oceans-and
22:06:28 From Bru Pearce : https://envisionationorg.sharepoint.com/:b:/r/sites/restorationplan/Shared%20Documents/Released/Biosphere%20Restoration%20Plan%202022.pdf?csf=1&web=1&e=8vqzyZ
22:09:00 From Dr Brian von Herzen : SharePoint not accessible
22:13:31 From Chris Vivian : https://theconversation.com/climate-scientists-concept-of-net-zero-is-a-dangerous-trap-157368
22:13:49 From Dr Brian von Herzen : thank you Robert, earthshine paper is very helpful
22:16:17 From John Nissen : Earthshine paper may be biased if looking at reflection from moon, as equator bias.
22:16:45 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Ceres data supports it
22:17:38 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Ceres shows 1w/m² decline over the same period
22:17:59 From Dr Brian von Herzen : satellite observation
22:18:43 From John Nissen : @Brian interesting!
22:19:05 From Dr Brian von Herzen : 👍
22:19:22 From John Nissen : Have they measured IR change?
22:31:51 From Bru Pearce : Good night all I have run out of steam. email me directly if you want a copy of my paper.

Agenda
Chris V "“ ARIA: Advanced Research and Innovation Agency (New in the UK)
Robert T "“ Arctic Momentum conference (Last week in Finland)
John M "“ Upwelling along the AMOC?
Clive "“ How can new clouds form?
Chat
21:17:30 From Robert Tulip : https://www.operaatioarktis.fi/en/arctic-endgame
21:51:03 From Oswald Petersen : I am afraid I have to go. Thanks for an interesting talk!
22:29:41 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Tapio Schneider Caltech
22:30:43 From Clive Elsworth : https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/article-abstract/74/6/44/817123/Accelerating-progress-in-climate?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Agenda
Chris V "“ ARIA: Advanced Research and Innovation Agency (New in the UK)
Robert T "“ Arctic Momentum conference (Last week in Finland)
John M "“ Upwelling along the AMOC?
Clive "“ How can new clouds form?
Chat
21:17:30 From Robert Tulip : https://www.operaatioarktis.fi/en/arctic-endgame
21:51:03 From Oswald Petersen : I am afraid I have to go. Thanks for an interesting talk!
22:29:41 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Tapio Schneider Caltech
22:30:43 From Clive Elsworth : https://pubs.aip.org/physicstoday/article-abstract/74/6/44/817123/Accelerating-progress-in-climate?redirectedFrom=fulltext

Agenda
Brian - Reflection: Surface vs Tropospheric vs Stratospheric
Clive – Why do low lying clouds cool, but high cirrus cloud warm?
Bru – Biofuels from sargassum at scale – e.g. for aviation
Sev – NOAC consensus document
Dr Brian von Herzen : https://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/parameters/weather/photosynthetically-active-radiation/#:~:text=Of%20the%20light%20that%20reaches,different%20impact%20on%20the%20environment
Grant Gower : Got to go. Might be able to rejoin in 30 minutes
Dr Brian von Herzen : https://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/parameters/weather/photosynthetically-active-radiation/#:~:text=Of%20the%20light%20that%20reaches,different%20impact%20on%20the%20environment
Ron Baiman : Or more generally DCC
Dr Brian von Herzen : Need to go in 5 minutes... Great connecting today
Dr Brian von Herzen : Let's edit this on Google docs in suggestion mode?
Dr Brian von Herzen : Faster for most edits
Dr Brian von Herzen : And we can discuss the rest
Mohammad Tanvir Anjum : It would also be nice if I could receive the meeting notes please!

Agenda
Brian - Reflection: Surface vs Tropospheric vs Stratospheric
Clive – Why do low lying clouds cool, but high cirrus cloud warm?
Bru – Biofuels from sargassum at scale – e.g. for aviation
Sev – NOAC consensus document
Dr Brian von Herzen : https://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/parameters/weather/photosynthetically-active-radiation/#:~:text=Of%20the%20light%20that%20reaches,different%20impact%20on%20the%20environment
Grant Gower : Got to go. Might be able to rejoin in 30 minutes
Dr Brian von Herzen : https://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/parameters/weather/photosynthetically-active-radiation/#:~:text=Of%20the%20light%20that%20reaches,different%20impact%20on%20the%20environment
Ron Baiman : Or more generally DCC
Dr Brian von Herzen : Need to go in 5 minutes... Great connecting today
Dr Brian von Herzen : Let's edit this on Google docs in suggestion mode?
Dr Brian von Herzen : Faster for most edits
Dr Brian von Herzen : And we can discuss the rest
Mohammad Tanvir Anjum : It would also be nice if I could receive the meeting notes please!

Agenda
Franz "“ UV loss from SAI, affecting tropospheric oxidative capacity
Robert T "“ Albedo effects of Iron Salt Aerosol
Chris V "“ 60-70 scientists call for SRM research
John M "“ template for outreach
20:06:27 From Shaun Fitzgerald : Letter

Agenda
Franz "“ UV loss from SAI, affecting tropospheric oxidative capacity
Robert T "“ Albedo effects of Iron Salt Aerosol
Chris V "“ 60-70 scientists call for SRM research
John M "“ template for outreach
20:06:27 From Shaun Fitzgerald : Letter

Agenda
Sev "“ Scope of Anton"™s climate solution evaluation website "“ NOAC or wider?
Anton "“ Asked Chris V how he would direct research on ocean iron fertilization (OIF)
Herb "“ UN Human Rights report on climate interventions falls short
Ron B "“ Open letter on research on climate impact of bunker fuel restrictions
Chris V "“ Brief mention of shipping transition to non GHG emitting fuels
Chat
21:09:41 From Ron Baiman : Daleanne et al., If you haven't seen this?: https://www.scribd.com/document/656516741/The-Case-for-Urgent-Direct-Climate-Cooling-Final-Version-6-19-2023

Agenda
Sev "“ Scope of Anton"™s climate solution evaluation website "“ NOAC or wider?
Anton "“ Asked Chris V how he would direct research on ocean iron fertilization (OIF)
Herb "“ UN Human Rights report on climate interventions falls short
Ron B "“ Open letter on research on climate impact of bunker fuel restrictions
Chris V "“ Brief mention of shipping transition to non GHG emitting fuels
Chat
21:09:41 From Ron Baiman : Daleanne et al., If you haven't seen this?: https://www.scribd.com/document/656516741/The-Case-for-Urgent-Direct-Climate-Cooling-Final-Version-6-19-2023

Agenda
Doug "“ Does climate sensitivity matter in the short term?
Sev "“ Greenknights "“ putting Buoyant flakes before US Congress
Rebecca "“ MCB Great barrier reef "“ status Stephen?
Doug "“ Beneath the Polar Sun
Doug "“ Kamchatka volcano "“ effects measurement?
Clive "“ Greenland "“ grayland BBC video.
Peter - pictures of Greenland
Mannajo "“ comment on Greenland
Sev "“ Cartoon
Chat
21:01:22 From Sev Clarke : https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/17/hey-dont-krill-yourself-humanity?utm_term=643d18a6ed47af625f01d0443e5baa44\u0026utm_campaign=BestOfGuardianOpinionAUS\u0026utm_source=esp\u0026utm_medium=Email\u0026CMP=opinionau_email
21:01:27 From Sev Clarke : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dpytym6Pq3g1UkrnSLE7zHRxYyimlxfkj7jYGzaX95I/edit
21:15:01 From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : PBS's movie

Agenda
Doug "“ Does climate sensitivity matter in the short term?
Sev "“ Greenknights "“ putting Buoyant flakes before US Congress
Rebecca "“ MCB Great barrier reef "“ status Stephen?
Doug "“ Beneath the Polar Sun
Doug "“ Kamchatka volcano "“ effects measurement?
Clive "“ Greenland "“ grayland BBC video.
Peter - pictures of Greenland
Mannajo "“ comment on Greenland
Sev "“ Cartoon
Chat
21:01:22 From Sev Clarke : https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/17/hey-dont-krill-yourself-humanity?utm_term=643d18a6ed47af625f01d0443e5baa44\u0026utm_campaign=BestOfGuardianOpinionAUS\u0026utm_source=esp\u0026utm_medium=Email\u0026CMP=opinionau_email
21:01:27 From Sev Clarke : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dpytym6Pq3g1UkrnSLE7zHRxYyimlxfkj7jYGzaX95I/edit
21:15:01 From Doug Grandt (Vermont) : PBS's movie

Agenda
Robert T "“ Marine Cloud brightening
"“ Tipping points
Ron B "“ Open letter to IMO "“ please sign it, and spread the word!
John M "“ Cooling credit market: e.g. aerosols, sea surface, etc
Bruce P ¬"“ NOAC website demo
Chris V "“ NREL "“ Renewable energy to power marine CDR
"“ COP 28 "“ Virtual Ocean Pavillion
Chat
20:07:06 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Mission Analysis for Marine Renewable
Energy To Provide Power for Marine
Carbon Dioxide Removal - https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy23osti/87165.pdf
20:09:32 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : COP28 Virtula Ocean Pavilion - https://cop28oceanpavilion.vfairs.com/
20:14:30 From Robert Tulip : https://rebrighten.org/
20:23:02 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : Professor Symes said: "As an electrochemist, I"™ve spent the last 15 years developing sustainable fuels and chemical processes in the drive towards net zero. Now, as an ARIA Programme Director I want to explore technologies for actively reducing atmospheric carbon dioxide levels and for climate intervention at the regional and global scale.
"Limiting further increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide levels by achieving net zero is necessary but insufficient to prevent the worst consequences of climate change. The full effects of delaying action will be felt by our children and grandchildren. We need to know what our options are for responsible climate intervention technologies, and if, where and when we should deploy them. If we are serious about combating climate change, we need to evaluate these technologies now."
20:23:17 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : https://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_1001798_en.html
20:27:20 From Doug Grandt : Financial Times notification this morning: Bit.ly/GoreFT25Oct23 "¦ inspired me to post on Facebook "In nearly a year, Al Gore hasn"™t got Dr. Hansen"™s message"”still spewing I.P.C.C. \u0026 Dr. Mann-think.
😵"ðŸ’«ðŸ™„😳🤔🤭🫣🤗😑🤮
(heads up at 6:18"“7:00)
20:32:08 From Jonathan Cole : What is it? What is distracting everyone, what do they really concentrate on?
20:40:44 From Jonathan Cole : Perhaps the subject, global temperature, is in the same category of concern to individuals as

Agenda
Robert T "“ Marine Cloud brightening
"“ Tipping points
Ron B "“ Open letter to IMO "“ please sign it, and spread the word!
John M "“ Cooling credit market: e.g. aerosols, sea surface, etc
Bruce P ¬"“ NOAC website demo
Chris V "“ NREL "“ Renewable energy to power marine CDR
"“ COP 28 "“ Virtual Ocean Pavillion
Chat
20:07:06 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : Mission Analysis for Marine Renewable
Energy To Provide Power for Marine
Carbon Dioxide Removal - https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy23osti/87165.pdf
20:09:32 From Chris Vivian - GESAMP WG 41 : COP28 Virtula Ocean Pavilion - https://cop28oceanpavilion.vfairs.com/
20:14:30 From Robert Tulip : https://rebrighten.org/
20:23:02 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : Professor Symes said: "As an electrochemist, I"™ve spent the last 15 years developing sustainable fuels and chemical processes in the drive towards net zero. Now, as an ARIA Programme Director I want to explore technologies for actively reducing atmospheric carbon dioxide levels and for climate intervention at the regional and global scale.
"Limiting further increases in atmospheric carbon dioxide levels by achieving net zero is necessary but insufficient to prevent the worst consequences of climate change. The full effects of delaying action will be felt by our children and grandchildren. We need to know what our options are for responsible climate intervention technologies, and if, where and when we should deploy them. If we are serious about combating climate change, we need to evaluate these technologies now."
20:23:17 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : https://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_1001798_en.html
20:27:20 From Doug Grandt : Financial Times notification this morning: Bit.ly/GoreFT25Oct23 "¦ inspired me to post on Facebook "In nearly a year, Al Gore hasn"™t got Dr. Hansen"™s message"”still spewing I.P.C.C. \u0026 Dr. Mann-think.
😵"ðŸ’«ðŸ™„😳🤔🤭🫣🤗😑🤮
(heads up at 6:18"“7:00)
20:32:08 From Jonathan Cole : What is it? What is distracting everyone, what do they really concentrate on?
20:40:44 From Jonathan Cole : Perhaps the subject, global temperature, is in the same category of concern to individuals as