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| 00:09 | hi stephen hi have you got your copy of the ipcc uh i've just read someone's comment on it it's really very pathetic is it yeah you know it's they say it's just masking the effects it's not doing anything important i'm exciting the eyes sorry do they say it's just masking the problem not not not fixing the problem and a lot of uncertainties about it right it's very depressing uh yeah there's a a bit of software which i use which is uh really it's called pdf exchange editor and it's got a very powerful search |
| 01:03 | thing so i can get everything it mentions about any word and it'll give me uh a jump to the page and highlight um [Music] so every i can tell you every page number that's got particular words in it uh okay i mean the pdf viewer does that doesn't it the acrobat reader i'm sure sure that lots of them do but this is particularly good uh-huh so you can get everything you want um it saves you reading thousands of pages of complete you guff i just simply don't have time yeah and it kind of seems to you know a lot of it seems to say the |
| 01:46 | same thing that i've seen before anyway yeah i think a lot of it should be i would like to read you one thing though well um stephen how about waiting until everyone's here should we do the start time and i'll put it on the agenda why don't i put that i'll read it again then later led by one of the big cheeses right active decision making requires assessing potential benefits barriers and risks yeah so try and keep it steven so i'm going to write down here it's 58 minutes into the video |
| 02:26 | version of the um [Music] presentation which i've sent to people you can download you can jump straight for it i'll read it again effective decision-making right assessing potential benefits barriers and risks now when i think all the years i spent trying to use ineffective decision making and not looking at any of those things it really is heartbreaking uh i think i've missed something here uh make making us to make was this to make effective yes making assessing potential benefits barriers and risks potential benefits uh barriers |
| 03:10 | benefits barriers and risks right uh making what bloody food why do you need to waste time saying that it's so bleeding obvious right so is this what you're saying that this is in the report yeah so hang on i think i'm not it's in me i'm not sharing my screen so no one can no one can see what i'm doing here so yeah here we go if you if you look look at the the the web presentation they did for the press at four o'clock this afternoon uh that was what was one of the guys he had a slide that had that said on it |
| 03:49 | thank you to address was this to address potential uh effective decision making requires assessing potential requires right right thing yeah essential benefits barriers and risks potential right okay that's it barry benefits barriers and respect so think of all the people who say that we don't need to think about the benefits barriers and risks you know hands up everybody who thinks we shouldn't look at them well people don't know do they they they don't they say oh no we don't like that um |
| 04:34 | and so let's not do it without taking into account the whole picture the big picture so i just say look at the big picture look at the um yeah the everything look at the whole uh um that's it i think crossing the road requires people to watch out for traffic right it's it's true but do you need to say it it's too blue apparently you do i mean crossing the road we all know we're all used to doing that right but when it comes to climate solutions many many people have got very little idea i mean this is what's been |
| 05:10 | going through my head what scientists look very closely at at pros and cons and they understand um what's coming down the line but other people just don't they've got no idea that it and their whole approach this is what the conclusion i've come to is is it for them it's everything's a story you know it's with goodies and baddies you know it's a narrative they don't understand the physical um nature of things very well yeah they again they kind of turn the key it works off they drive they don't |
| 05:43 | they're not thinking about how it works i mean to be honest not neither am i but i do have at some point thought about that so i think this is what we're up against um it's it's how how something this gets processed inside your average person's head anyway so um we have i don't want to have that in the agenda i think you probably don't get rid of that i was just i mean i've it's wasting time and space saying something that is so bleeding obvious to intelligent people i think it's useful to have it on the |
| 06:24 | agenda simply because so many of these geoengineering other projects don't seem to look at it all right maybe it's a good idea and he's a very uh it's very fortunate for us that he is able to understand that but clive you wanted to be reminded about the whale mapping url thank you whale mapping that's it uh yeah uh let's see if i've still got that sorry hi hi uh hi brian yeah uh greetings hey good to see you brian stephen you declined the invitation invitation so i thought you weren't |
| 07:09 | going to be here but you're still always good to see you i got stephen salter has declined you'll know at community so i thought he's look he's losing faith i don't know how to decline it you must have clicked accidentally then something comes through and you can click accept or reject okay it's nine o'clock everybody so great to see everyone here um and um so i i i'll just say one more little um thing at the beginning uh this is not really you know obviously i organized the show but it's for |
| 07:44 | everybody just meet these meetings it's for everyone and it's not necessarily it about what you might like to be talked about but it might be a question you have we have lots of experts here um actually i've got a question if someone's uh here um if uh chris vivian's i think if he's here today um uh okay so there's lots of experts to see and i see peter waddams is here uh he's an expert who's a minor information on arctic ice um and so yeah so so for the agenda this can be anything you |
| 08:22 | want and it's really for you what you want so if sev suggested uh this uh very nice article talked about um whale the mapping of whale uh migration paths and um giving figures on the appalling number of whales that are killed not just whales but citations whales dolphins and you know um that are killed each year so um okay so for everyone please fire away what we have what should we talk about today and what or what question or what thing might you might want to present you think that everybody should know um i think we should talk about the |
| 09:01 | gallagher paper claiming that kelp is no help okay so uh okay i don't know how to spell gallagher uh paper uh kelp growing kelp is is no help oh should i say kel growing is uh well we understand what that means no help to solving climate change doesn't sequester co2 apparently yep i think it's probably an h in there isn't it yup okay um and if franz is here he may well have some things to say about that okay anyone else anything else will you be able to discuss how how ukraine may be affecting [Music] climate restoration i i don't have any |
| 09:51 | thoughts on it but it's it's going to have an effect yeah yeah yeah i'd like to see something about the uh this latest ipcc report which says that this is we're really doomed unless we unless everything is done now and the bbc and head of that report announced that he was going to be dealing with um carbon dioxide removal but there's nothing actually in the report about it at all so the report really doesn't take us anywhere towards trying to solve the problem of um [Music] getting carbon dioxide out of the |
| 10:37 | atmosphere so what happened why did it not get into the report uh when the bbc said it was going to be in the report and therefore why is the report kind of useless as a result yeah uh why not okay uh so stephen saltzer had yeah the report the report has to be approved by all the governments and so anybody who doesn't like a particular thing can have it snipped out uh okay so let's we'll get to that now that can be the first item that we'll speak about is there anything else for anyone to put on this list you know i was |
| 11:18 | particularly going to say about the report that it's all based on co2e and it's all based on a hundred years of residence which to me just takes out the integrity of the entire report um particularly when it's focusing on 2030 and 2050 right okay right so quite a bit to talk about the report anything else uh i mean i'm fine to have more comments more things to discuss about the report question yep um for after the report but um i really really appreciate uh better understanding the um role of wales and you know large marine |
| 12:12 | mammals and just because i am trying to fill the gap that you articulated early on about how people don't understand how things work uh let alone how how the global system works and i'm working on a powerpoint and doug is also working on one on specifically on the arctic and refreezing the arctic but i'm trying to give people the basic background information i'm doing a lot of research um just to understand the terminology and share that with others so if that could go on the list that would be very helpful to me that's right there |
| 13:01 | manager um that's a great idea thank you for that anything else anyone we have eduardo from caracas this today it's great to see you eduardo you've made it this time yes hello hello yeah uh okay any other thing for anyone maybe this is enough to talk about uh yeah okay then um all right so let's yep yep um all that is done albert carlier has done a little um um he was interviewed on uh on some program or rather yeah and he's talking about the the paleo history and how we should be learning from what |
| 13:54 | happened in in the past okay um paleoclimate should we say yeah i'm learning from it importance uh yeah yeah to learn from yeah okay uh yeah i i he he's on the list to be uh to be in this group uh in these meetings yeah and he said to me he was hoping to be on so i'm i'm putting him a slot in case in case he arrived okay right okay i don't actually see any new faces here today um okay anything anyone else uh okay i think we should have just about enough here okay um so uh would you like to just was anything |
| 14:47 | else you wanted to say uh we began before everyone arrived and stephen salter was saying the ipcc report states the bleeding obvious uh for my language people should take the whole picture into account you know the the risks benefits and risks uh of any particular action is there anything else you want to say about that um stephen no i i i just thought it was such a such a bleeding obvious thing to say that it really is wasting time everybody reading it but it was put up there as if it was a deep sort right yeah uh |
| 15:29 | yeah well i mean okay yeah and i was saying well i think uh that's needed um because many people don't you know we put forward these solutions and someone will say oh yeah but i don't like that i don't understand it um and so what's been going through my head recently is okay so you'd much rather much rather have huge new parts of the world uninhabitable underwater too hot to live in um lots of malaria dengue so we don't need to bother our pretty little heads about that kind of stuff yes that's right yeah yeah |
| 16:11 | i saw something easy saying um uh as the permafrost melts there was a an outbreak of siberian anthrax uh an ancient uh virus uh became exposed um from some rotting rain you know thousands of years old rotting reindeer and an outbreak break of anthrax occurred it wasn't terribly serious um but it could have been and there might be another one that's that's nasty um yeah so i think it's yeah i mean they it should be obvious but it isn't for people who many people don't have time to work on climate |
| 16:50 | change think about climate change um most of my family they don't really and friends they say not that can we change the subject please they say to me look you're a broken record we've had enough of it um they don't want to hear about it and so it's difficult to communicate um the issues to everyone okay um and could we add one thing clive yeah just maybe at the bottom a little bit talk about the potential of a hydrogen economy or in might be good yeah lack of it hydrogen economy uh well let's say yeah but just that's |
| 17:28 | enough of a headline i think yep um peter bottoms um was there anything else i'm sorry i cut you off before but now's the time to discuss this about um um well well i think the thing there's some mysterious thing going on um whereby ipcc simply doesn't want to be forced to consider um carbon dioxide removal from the atmosphere or or geoengineering for that matter and when i looked at the list of authors of this latest report that's just come out the chief author is korean guy who was also the chief author of the |
| 18:13 | uh the document for the paris climate agreement and when the paris climate agreement came out there was a lot of um of argument about why on earth is it saying we shouldn't it actually positively said we shouldn't be doing any um geoengineering because we don't know what the consequences might be and um then five years later we have this despite the fact that the bbc for some reason had got it into their heads that this report was at last going to say we've got to do this if we're going to save ourselves because everything is |
| 19:02 | dire and urgent they get in the end there's not a single word about it and everything is simply let's reduce our emissions we must reduce them even more urgently but of course the more you reduce the emissions all it means is you you warm up more slowly you don't doesn't do anything about actually bringing back a decent climate so um it's a failure as a report but a deliberate one and that's i think pretty worrying uh the the report that's failed sorry what was the bbc two days ago before the report came out |
| 19:44 | the bbc did a preview of it and said this was going to really stress the importance of taking carbon dioxide out to the atmosphere right okay there wasn't a word about it there is quite a lot sorry i've got a search on here there's there's lots of room of sightings of it page 116 158 213 three nine five 506 507 is quite a lot oh okay yes i just put co2 removal in search so it is allowed okay it appears in the summary for policymakers yeah well i've got the entire report here and i've got a search thing that's |
| 20:32 | responding to co2 removal so what made you think it wasn't there uh peter do you think you might have the wrong version or something oh because i saw a review of it today and it said it wasn't there someone else okay well there is there is lots yes maybe you can get back to that person and say stop misleading us it's not as bad i've got 20 or 30 uh hits commentators quite a lot of them will be on the same page so it might not be i i i'll um i'll count the number and tell you exactly what it is i'll tell you the |
| 21:14 | number of different pages well i've uh uh i'm on twitter i see yeah some of you may know oliver gedden uh the climate scientist from germany he has a tweet about cdr i think it might be helpful i don't mind if i take a minute just to read what he said because key authors of that he says the report includes a comprehensive assessment of cdr its role in mitigation and long-term pathways but also a techno-economic assessment of 10 cdr methods uh for carbon dioxide removal it's still early days in climate policy well not |
| 21:53 | for us i think but but there are already established methods mainly forestry and soil um and ar6 reports there are chapters dealing solely with cdr and then he goes through historically where they appear in in previous uh reports but it does look like and then he says chapter 12 cross sectoral perspectives as the hub for the cdr assessment mainly section 12. |
| 22:21 | 3 many land-based cdr methods are covered and they're also covered in chapter three on uh scenarios uh and then the technical assessment there um i guess that and then he says most important sentence on cdr in the summary is quote the deployment of cdr to counterbalance hard to abate residual emissions is unavoidable if net co2 or ghg emissions are to be achieved so there we go uh there's also something here about sinking marine biomass into the deep ocean so that that gets a look in excellent is is that reporting the link that you |
| 23:05 | sent um stephen uh i've got the full report uh the link that i sent to everybody was just the discussion of the report for journalists does and does that contain a summary of cdr methods i do i think i recall it being mentioned i can't remember what they said it's one of the things that they were having on a list it does appear in the summary to policymakers which is 64 pages which i read through this afternoon fast i have to wait i don't think he did yeah i don't know if there's any confusion but |
| 23:44 | the the report out of released at 4 p.m uk time today which is uh five hours ago um was wg3 [Music] but there have been other reports like keeping below 1.5 and a wg 2 so are we all talking about the same report the one that came out today was definitely wg3 and three separate things that you could get there's one for the very very important people and then there's a whole lot and then there's a a third one for policy makers i think um but there's the three sections i i downloaded the complete one which is |
| 24:32 | really big i i think it's 2 000 pages um so that's not meant ready to be rent by anybody well it's the report to um policymakers which is the one that gets widely read by anybody that very few politicians would read the anything else if they read this there must be a lot of scientists who are um distressed ipcc scientists who had just stressed that things were taken out at the last minute by the government people oh yeah and what i think we need to do is to try and latch onto the dissenting voices and produce a |
| 25:24 | um a a critique a um um whatever you do if you're dissenting from a report i wouldn't say it requires a it requires a health warning it needs to be put forward explain that it's consensus-based science so when people read it they understand that it's based on agreements and they don't look at it and say oh this is it well the bbc said look this is a report produced by the top climate experts it is um so uh so we've got to somehow there has to be a rallying and we can hopefully help in this rallying |
| 26:12 | of the people who realize that if you just do what this report says we've got to do it's going to be an absolute catastrophe catastrophe for future generations because they're going to have to withstand huge sea level rise and huge climate change and possibly we could possibly be facing a kind of hot house earth situation where you know where we're absolutely helpless even with the most drastic cooling technologies we might we might find ourselves just completely snookered and that's it and that's |
| 26:54 | well you know that's curtains i mean that it it really that i mean it is really like that they begin they begin in this report to express how dangerous the situation and how they've been surprised that's much worse and it's getting worse faster than they expected and and all that and and it's going to be worse than they expected it was going to be uh and a lot worse and they talked about cat catastrophe and and then they put this feeble strategy which is what the strategy that they've been pumping out |
| 27:35 | for 40 years which is no longer adequate for the occasion of reducing emissions john is that right yeah yeah and that was that was their original task ibc uh was set up to deal with reducing emissions that was their terms of reference and they haven't changed it but they've changed uh themselves into being uh so called the leading people on climate change and what to do about it so you're challenging you're saying maybe they're not necessarily i mean they're the best climate scientists but |
| 28:14 | maybe they're not the best solution engineers yeah so i think a proper risk risk assessment needs to be done and we could talk about uh a plan b or plan a plus or something which includes as peter then says she needs to include uh cooling in the plan as peter who says peter urban peter irvin yeah um i've been talking about him and uh he gave a okay a talk which you can all uh follow and he's an expert on stratospheric aerosol injection okay but but he doesn't say the urgency of the situation warrants it |
| 29:04 | yet and i've been arguing with him uh rather fruitlessly at the urgency dance so at least he's supporting the uh the importance of having it and having it there as an emergency for that solution yeah okay emergency method and i'm just adding to that saying well i think the emergency is now okay great okay yeah so very clear thank you john um brian please uh you're a mutant john yeah i think that uh john presents an interesting opportunity and that is if we uh effectively limit the ipcc to its original charter and that is emission |
| 29:53 | reduction then that opens the way for a new organization that's focused on drawdown and providing not america's climate choices but the civilization's climate choices and really build a new organization that has the technical leadership that's needed in order to present an array of choices for governments around the world to make informed decisions about drawdown and um you know i think i'm going to quote buckminster fuller when he said you know to really change the world uh build something new maybe i mis maybe |
| 30:27 | it's someone else but um and so that presents an opportunity and that is um you know uh scientists are excellent at observing but it takes engineers to act and what i think we need to do is build global technical leadership perhaps even with united nations support and just claim the high ground on drawdown and that is let's let's let's hold ipcc to their original charter they're only chartered with emissions reduction that's all they really can or want to do and it takes um it's going to take the |
| 31:00 | the rest of the technical community to really build expertise on civilization's climate choices and i think that's something that we need to move forward to present and i you know a united nations supported effort to build the climate choices that we'll need within the coming years okay we don't allow political censorship of that new body we have it only tactical okay so uh you're proposing something there brian um yeah it's a great idea it sounds like a great idea to me um now what we go we we find our connections to the |
| 31:41 | united nations and socialize the concept with uh perhaps a charter and the charter that we should develop is one where um the ipcc has done a great job of finding ways to reduce emissions and finding let's just say you know i would say it differently i would say ipcc's perhaps focusing on the need to reduce emissions which is excellent but we have to go beyond that we have to really develop a drawdown commission if you will and the drawdown commission is going to be focused on producing the choices civilization's |
| 32:16 | climate choices ccc and and civilization's climate choices are something that it'll be a menu that each government will be able to select from and if you know i'm going to miss say something that is we'd love to empower the global south to lead the way on holding the line at 1. |
| 32:37 | 5 degrees celsius using a spectrum of drawdown techniques which are outlined in the uh civilization climate sources consortium if you will that's supported by the united nations civilization climate what was that choices choices right yep thank you yeah so can you do does anyone here know does people have contacts with the uh un people that could put forward a proposal like that foundation for climate research was a united nations negotiator for climate action so there is one contact he certainly knows the inner workings of the |
| 33:29 | the system uh the uh you know the secretary general has expressed his frustration and outlined the doom and gloom that we all fear and yet their institution the ipcc has been completely ineffective in uh yeah implementing solutions yeah and just so you don't have to watch poster uh who is that person that and with peter tchaikovsky's group he's the chief executive officer of uh peter's foundation uh is that peter jenkins no do you know the person you're able to i don't know him personally but i can |
| 34:19 | certainly provide his name he recently wrote a uh was published in the new york times with and so he has connections and certainly you know what what i am frustrated that nothing is happening and i'm becoming very irritated by seeing apologists appearing in the press uh the where as reported by the a columnist in the new york times uh michael mann was quoted as saying we've got an optimistic future ahead of us i wish i could have what he's smoking if it's legal but the uh the there's no action there |
| 35:15 | and so the in in spreading a word as as brian is suggesting i think is an excellent idea but we have multiple people in the press organization who are conditioned to spouting the party line of ipcc because the headline on this article was here's another reason why we have to reduce emissions nobody's talking about a 30 foot c sea level rise nobody's talking about the potential release of giga tons of clathrates from under the arctic and the permafrost and the antarctic and the long-term consequences of this |
| 36:01 | uh my view is it's time that we got a message into the press by a all-court press uh to get the canaries into the coal mines yeah yeah brian you've got your hand raised yeah i think we should start with rick weyman uh we can continue to secretary general antonio gutierrez and effectively propose citizens climate choices um to uh you know as a new organization that really does focus on the um the choices that civilization has to um really explore and and really understand how each each country can uh help determine how to meet their |
| 36:44 | national commitments and how to actually uh you know be part of the regeneration of a healthy climate rick wyman you said rick wayman at f4cr yeah foundation for climate restoration and uh followed by a path to antonio guterres uh secretary general united nations yeah so okay the big truck the big trouble um is including the cooling technology uh which which we let's go one step at a time yeah i mean i think we need to just discuss the spectrum of choices and rather than past judgment we should be focused on creating a menu that each |
| 37:25 | government can use to um you know figure out how they can meet national commitments and then beyond that i think we should find a way that cooling is on the table it's not up to us to decide but up to us to articulate the menu of options available to the members of the united nations and then that gets taken out by the countries yeah go ahead bruce current system is that you've got 190 395 countries who are agreeing on a set of texts in here a lot of those countries 130 140 of them would probably be very happy to write |
| 38:11 | and see what we want to see in here the problem is you've got 56 of them who are dissenting and actually probably less than that you've probably got seven or eight who are really powerful who are dissenting and some others are following them somehow you need to separate those out and you need to get out an unedited version of this i mean find a way of saying this is what we really think and i'm sorry but we're going to exclude those that are totally anti which is the hydrocarbon-based economies |
| 38:43 | uh to a great extent and perhaps we choose majority yeah we could do a a review of the document and we could pick out the parts and say this is why this is wrong this information is in here and it has been turned down by x y and z and that as an apolitical international body because we don't destroy the good work that is coming out of this it is after all the only you know consensus is part of the way there and we don't want to create a lot of enemies to our group um we've got we've got to carry the world |
| 39:19 | with us somehow in this so it's say these things yeah so in january you know right uh something very significant happened in january and that is um shell by hooker by crook you know has committed to uh complete decarbonization of scope 3 emissions by 2050. so um that and a commitment to eliminate scope 3 emissions uh 45 by 2035 um to be determined by the courts means that we've got some very powerful players that are coming on side bp is probably close to shell and eventually exxon and chevron will be forced to move |
| 39:59 | the same direction so the tide is turning and the time is right to be engaging on this more fully and then getting support from uh you know these organizations to actually they're gonna need a lot of help to get to scope three decarbonization uh so there's there are many pieces there that um we can do and this can be part of that so the tide may be turning on this there are organizations we could potentially really help like the you know the campaign to make ecocide a fifth crime against peace um a group such as ours that came out with |
| 40:32 | a review and a critique of this and provided them with the evidence to help them work because they've they've they've actually making presentation to un and they're making presentation at the european level and they've been really making some good headway so think about um allies uh bodies that are already in place that we could help and give them the ammunition to put the right information out there just a thought yep uh thanks bro uh herb please uh yeah some of you may remember after um uh wg2 was released a couple months ago |
| 41:13 | there was an article uh in one of the uh by one of the climate uh sort of newsletters uh that went behind the scenes there and they pointed out that with respect to srm if i if my memory is correct it was the u.s that was the major proponent of having srm in wg2 and was opposed uh by unknown countries but enough so that apparently they delayed things for five or six hours of wrangling and and the u.s u. |
| 41:43 | s apparently more or less lost out and i see ron is on this call i know ron you know the or no other person who is the assistant to john kerry who used to be supportive of this um of srn as i remember but anyway i i mentioned that in part because um hopefully this uh this intricate reporter will be able to go behind the scenes and produce something about you know who said what uh so we can find out who's you know who's on what side because we don't know i mean all this is sort of rumors and behind the scenes yeah |
| 42:18 | thank you uh ron oh thank you uh uh yeah that that person is susan binyas b i n i a z uh and she's the chief negotiator for uh john kerry she's also works closely with bodanski i forget his last name but they they have done a couple of reports on climate intervention with the uh uh with the uh the pew research people and the uh uh silver lining uh co-sponsored but anyway so that yeah so her i i you know that i mean herb got the information from the reporter and then uh uh i i just pointed out that you know it |
| 43:04 | does seem that the uh people very high up in the u.s uh climate negotiations are actually big promoters of climate intervention that's uh vinyasa in particular and podansky i mean i don't know what butesky writes papers with her i don't know if he has uh but she has apparently worked with kerry when he was with the state department so forth so that might explain why they were they were trying to create an opening for that uh in the uh in the ipcc report uh i just wanted to raise one other point which is that |
| 43:34 | um uh and i i hate to sound like a broken record but uh i guess we all sound like broken records sometimes uh but uh uh the uh the beyond a menu we need a funding mechanism and uh uh graciela chelnisky who actually you know designed and promoted and lobbied and got the kyoto protocol implemented or was a chief you know major uh a major person in that effort she's an economist at columbia uh university in the u. |
| 44:07 | s uh she um she has proposed a clean investment mechanism for carbon uh removal for for net negative emissions technologies to be accompanied uh by the the clean development mechanism which is part of kyoto that that led to over 300 billion in transfers from rich country support countries for for emissions reduction for for offsets so that would be you know i would if if we were going to do and i i like ryan's idea i think it's a great idea uh but we it's more you know the issue we're facing is is more than the need |
| 44:38 | for menus and technology we need a way to get it to the countries that uh we want them to you know who are most in need of using these and generating more energy at the same time for their citizens uh and this would be a way to drive funding and jobs and technology and some of those uh net negative emissions technologies actually generate electricity at the same time as you've all heard me talk about the natural gas i'll stop there okay thank thanks ron i i think a menu is a good place to start don't you think and at |
| 45:09 | least you know what's there and then you can start funding that be my car yeah i mean i i guess i just get frustrated because that we have you know the the climate scientists you know screaming and yelling tearing their hair out uh i mean i've said this over and over again you know and and uh and the uh and the politicians saying oh yeah you know i'm i'm i'm reducing emissions i have a target you know zero by 20 whatever uh crossing the expo but there's no you know there's no understanding that in the in the |
| 45:39 | political reality is you if you want to get anything done you need you need funding right you need you need a way to do it especially developing countries and that that has to be part of it otherwise we're just sort of of course kind of yelling and yelling in the in the storm you know yelling you know nobody's going to listen yeah um yeah let me just say one more thing i'm just telling you what's in my head here is um that uh you know someone needs to reach out to some of these people have been mentioned say that we want to help |
| 46:07 | we've what we've got a menu of uh you know climate solution a whole lot of things um that we'd like you to be aware of so my question is who would be so who who would be willing to to sort of put forward i don't know 50 into a pot you know so that someone i don't know to pray for web site or who knows what for or for somebody to or who's willing to reach out and and do that is anyone going to do that otherwise we're just talking it's a talking shop here [Music] it's great fun to talk about big ideas |
| 46:42 | stephen yes i i would think it's very interesting to see the bits that were snipped out of the ipcc report and who pressured for the snipping to be done now there will be people who think that things that thought have gone into that that didn't go into it and they could be encouraged to tell us what these things were so it's that we're looking at i would be looking at the negative of what wasn't in ipcc and why it wasn't then okay that'd be interesting okay yeah thank you and grant got your hand up |
| 47:22 | i am all in support of uh creating a new platform and i see it as an opportunity to inform these leaders of the existence of alternatives and inside the menu of how we could uh help other nations draw down the emissions we should be able to feature the significance to those nations of uh tackling climate uh temperature reduction yeah the the awareness of you know we sit and talk about a trend 20 trillion dollar solution by building walls but that is completely uh forgetting about the human suffering that will happen |
| 48:18 | if we rely on cdr to save our bacon it's not going to happen yeah uh cdrs okay yep or even just emissions reduction yes um what was i going to say uh uh brian what's a scope 3 emissions reduction i i didn't know don't know what scope 3 is now i remember um scope 1 is direct emission scope 2 is indirect emissions uh like power transmission and scope three is are the emissions that your customers make when they use your products okay right and the fact that shell is now committed that it's going to reach |
| 49:02 | uh net zero scope 3 by 2050 means that it's going to transform itself as a company and this commitment was all made in january of this year great amazing so what there's what shell is saying then if they're going to eliminate the emissions their customers make they're going to stop selling petrochemicals they're going to transform their company as what's the name of the danish energy company that's done the same thing let's see it begins with an oh boosted barstead yes arstead committed in 2009 |
| 49:35 | to decarbonization and by 2017 they'd commit completed it so three years early they actually met their their commitment that's a great example that shell can follow yeah okay thank you yeah now yeah remember that um i saw in uh i think chris vivian uh sent a link to a previous um ipcc report of solutions and there was some ocean solutions and uh that mentioned um cdr ocean cdr and said very low confidence that this is any going to be any help at all and so that's a normal fear uncertainty and doubt and we need to |
| 50:15 | replace that um you know with more informed perspectives so i think it's something that we need to you know gradually bring the scientific community along as well but uh effectively we need to identify a set of climate choices for civilization that uh governments can choose from as part of meeting paris and other commitments right and also i mean dave the the national academy of sciences made a very nice presentation which i think we've discussed it here as well report in recent months saying that there ought to be a lot of |
| 50:47 | new research funding for ocean cdr yes it's a little bit self-serving but i think nasem does make some progress in that area again overly conservative uh from when we consider the present climate crisis however um it's a beginning the new report doesn't help it states on page 63 advice to positive nations ocean fertilization if implemented could lead to nutrient redistribution restriction on ecosystems enhanced ocean oxygen consumption and acidification in deep waters medium confidence right well it's true you know but this |
| 51:26 | is more fear uncertainty and doubt i mean the reality is uh in a triage century uh you need to actually consider the consequences of not doing something and the reality is we do need to look at oxygen levels the deep ocean acidification quite frankly is not much of an issue because there's 38 000 giga tons of carbonic acid in the deep sea already so at changing that by one or two percent is really quite a minor a minor effect it's a matter of distribution of carbon in the ocean that matters yeah yeah absolutely |
| 51:59 | yeah and quite frankly along these lines i mean one reason that uh gallagher and phil boyd and others are so concerned is they're just worried that uh you know uh growing uh seaweed in the deep ocean is going to provide an excuse for fossil fuel companies to get off just with continued continuing burn baby burn but the reality is uh we require decarbonization uh 80 or more that's the only way we're going to get to a viable approach and then we're going to need to draw down gigatons of course beyond that and |
| 52:33 | you know the the assumption the unfortunately invalid assumptions that are being made by some of these papers are really critical in particular gallagher um uh you know uh makes assumptions that are valid perhaps for a few coastal regions right around the edge of tasmania but are invalid for most of the ocean and uh you know it's fine that the peer review paper you know uh brings up the the questions that in fact microalgae and substory macro algae could uh you know produce some carbon fixation on its own but the |
| 53:07 | reality is when you go offshore to mostly empty ocean kelp can have an enormous benefit when it comes to fixing carbon and much of it's going to fall off and sink to the deep sea and so his assumptions are merely invalid for most of the ocean because they're invalid it's limited applicability the real damage occurs when gallagher goes on to twitter and tries to say kelp has no help and these sweeping over generalizations are cut up as fear uncertainty and doubt messages that are not really serving society and |
| 53:40 | so the reality is that we have to uh limit actually these over over generalizations that are simply invalid for most of the ocean and it's based upon fear but these fear uncertainty and doubt messages take five times longer to actually debunk than uh you know the actual fear messages themselves so it's a rather low low trick that the trump administration's used and others to cast uncertainty onto what's a very clear picture and that's what we need as a technical community to really uh join |
| 54:13 | together and push back on because um you know kelp is no help is couldn't be further from the truth the reality is kelp has produced you know an algae macroalgae and microalgae has produced half the oxygen we breathe and uh is responsible for you know perhaps half the carbon fixation on the planet and so we need to really bring that forward and really explain how you know we find um we find shotgun dna four thousand kilometers from the shore and four thousand meters deep of water of macro algae dna so the reality is it's |
| 54:48 | down there and there's it's contributes significantly to the net carbon export and um that's something that we really need to bring forward and push back against um you know twitter and the conversation when they try to make these sweeping generalizations that are invalid for most of the ocean right thank you brian assuming so much i could say it it's uh and i just see you've got your hand up um grant um uh this idea of a citizens climate choices menu to support uh and have people you know involved from the u.n |
| 55:25 | is this going to go anywhere anywhere or is this a nice conversation that we're having this this time well we should look at building a coalition and i my structural analysis is that we could put this underneath the united nations framework for climate change unfccc uh but that this would instead of just looking at emissions reduction this would actually look at the full spectrum of choices that civilization has in order to identify a good path forward and by creating a new organization under the un fccc we can really |
| 56:01 | have enable new thinking that is needed and is being called for even by the un secretary general yeah okay so there's fantastic reasons and justification you know for doing this um very well explained and not a very great proposal brian um i'm just wondering if after we've said good night this evening uh good morning to you brian in australia and and others in australia you know if anything's gonna happen um is anything gonna happen bro you know ron you you uh i mean some of us that we're just |
| 56:35 | working on technical stuff all the time we're trying to make sure that our proposals are correct um um but ron and uh and and you're writing a book maybe you've even published your book now are you in a position to push this forward and contact people and say look i've got this bunch of scientists that have a whole menu of options here is there any way that we you know we can we can make this publicly available oh i'm i'm sorry clive i i'm not i'm not you might be thinking of someone else |
| 57:07 | i'm not or not another raw different yeah no you ron oh me yeah oh i i i am not writing a book uh i'm saying herb's writing a book and you're an economist and you're always here yeah yeah yeah take the whole thing very seriously written as book yeah uh we're working on a white paper on this uh you know but i yeah i don't really i'm yeah i i don't have those kind of uh connections i did want to make one point though on on br if brian could just i know this is well maybe you know on the on the kelp |
| 57:38 | issue on gallagher thing uh if you if you listen to the podcast he says that it's um uh the the problem is there the the nutrients move around in the ocean i mean what i got from the podcast is this argument is that if you take into account the importing and exporting of of nutrients uh rather than just how much carbon co2 is stored in the kelp and how much of that gets down to the deep ocean that that's where he comes up with this notion that it may not work and i i tend to believe brian on all this i'm just i'm just kind |
| 58:11 | of just trying to get you know i i i do believe that that you know i i i tend to not agree well i'm just my gut feeling but but uh if if there was some you know if it's if this is has any element of truth at all that looking at the at the global circulation of nutrients and not just um what's what's included in the biomass changes the picture that that's his main argument as i understand it well thanks for that question ron you know i think when get in gallagher's context his notion of uh |
| 58:45 | deep sea is like 50 or 100 meters whereas we're going down thousands of meters uh the reality is that you know if you take all the mineral phosphate reserves in the world uh and you know you compare that to what's available dissolved in the ocean you've got five times more phosphorus just dissolved in the ocean there's no limitation when you go down 200 to 500 meters there's you know you can have thousands of years of carbon fixation and it's a nice loop you know that's where the nutrients end up anyway |
| 59:14 | so when it comes to phosphate and nitrate and other macro and micronutrients the ocean is replete and by simply accessing those from a few hundred meters down we're restoring natural upwelling this is what natural systems have done for centuries and so the reality is uh that you go anywhere in the ocean several hundred meters down and you have replete nutrients there's no limitation whatsoever and this is all about restoring natural upwelling that can enable nature give nature half a chance and she'll rebound with exponential |
| 59:44 | bounty and the reality that's the reality that we see the world over and with regional and and local species we can actually help to regenerate life in the ocean provide food security for a billion people and measure the carbon export of these regenerative interventions by the gigaton so brian just sorry sorry i just thought you just followed so i don't think he's talking about phosphates or those kind of uh you know mineral nutrients i think what he's talking about is that is the is the carbon calculation that if you |
| 1:00:13 | just you know yeah there's a bunch of fear uncertainty and down on this but it's very very simple and that is if you want to measure if you want to track the carbon just measure the phosphorus and look at the carbon and phosphorous ratios that's very simple what comes up comes up at 120 to 1 or less and what goes down via macro algae is 220 to 801 or more so you get a 2 1 to 8 to 1 leverage for every phosphorus atom that's bound up in a macro algae organism okay thank you they do say that um well microalgae |
| 1:00:52 | 99 in the open ocean um 99 of it remineralizes back to bicarbonate i guess that's what i saw in the in that report yeah and so the key difference is this that that we can measure the flux of seaweed that sinks a thousand meters a day it's day and night compared to microalgae the carbon to phosphorus ratios are higher the sink rates are orders of magnitude higher and literally we can demonstrate 80 to 90 percent of the seaweed that starts on its way down is getting past a thousand meter threshold within one day |
| 1:01:26 | right so so for you the key difference is having macro algae which is going to sink faster yeah that's why we've dedicated our lives to developing um marine permaculture deep water irrigation to enable offshore seaweed mariculture to feed the world regenerate life in the ocean and measure that carbon export yeah okay great thank you and i think some of us others here have a very close overlap with with uh your thinking brian i think so for certainly for me and friends and i think others here as well and we this |
| 1:01:58 | will lead us on to the thing about the whales is uh allowing and i think you're saying this as well uh brian um that allowing fish populations to uh recover uh fish migrate up and down uh in the water column and they bring up uh you know uh nutrients that you know in their bodies and they get predated on um by other other species whales and dolphins who you know pour it out at the surface uh providing lots of urea i read actually that uh urea is uh assimilated directly by some phytoplankton it doesn't even go |
| 1:02:34 | viral ammonia yeah both urea and ammonia are readily absorbed uh by you know by macro algae as well as well as nitrate and all all three of them are suitable nitrogen sources yeah great okay thank you yeah so this is the thing about biomass doing that upwelling bringing up these huge amount of nutrients which is deeper down in the ocean simply allowing that biomass to be to recover um so actually it's a shame that chris vivian i think chris vivian's not here today uh i was a bit gobsmacked last time when he said uh oh thought it would |
| 1:03:13 | be a bad idea to allow um biomass to recover uh in some parts of the area or to be boosted uh to be fair to him i think i should be nice to i think the right framing for this in the right context is to understand that we've lost 4 000 square kilometers of kelp forest during industrial times alone over the past 200 years from runoff from siltation from um you know various uh reductions and visibility of coastal environments so that's the beginning until we get to 4 000 square kilometers of regenerated kelp forest ecosystem services it's all |
| 1:03:45 | about restoring those ecosystem services offshore so let's just get back to where we were pre-industrially as a beginning yeah um okay so we're very much in agreement um on that which is great um okay any so i've got some hands up manager please thank you um i just i wanted to address what i believe you mentioned or referenced earlier about you know talking about it versus actually doing the outreach and one of the things i'd like to suggest is to create a shared spreadsheet that has a page for journalists that we have communication |
| 1:04:32 | with scientists that could be allies and um elected officials and so forth and who has direct um contact and access um and to uh for example and i don't mean to put john on the spot but i i think i recall he was going to reach out to sir david and and another david and i don't have my notes in front of me but different people at different times i think that i would have access to bill mckibben and i know that grant does as well and i just as an organizer i think we ought to get a little bit more organized on the |
| 1:05:27 | categories of people who knows who and also to create a presentation or series of presentations that are ready um if somebody is open what i think might be there's nothing sorry hang on i've got some noise hanging what's all that noise go please continue manager i think what may be a bit of an obstacle is that so much has been written and it's often in the form of of white papers and little by little i'm reading those white papers but i'm not sure that that is the best way ideally what we need is a blockbuster |
| 1:06:20 | that that focuses on this i forget what the recent one was that everybody was talking about um don't look up was it um yeah and and but that was an analogy it wasn't the reality and i so those are some of the organizing suggestions so that we're not you know i've been listening since i think december and i'm learning a lot but i am also uh concerned that um it's a little bit insular although i don't know what each one of you are doing by way of education and outreach but i do think that we could organize that a |
| 1:07:06 | little better so mana joe this that's great that's um music to my ears would you initiate a spreadsheet that sounds like a a nice start you know just something very small and simple uh thank you and uh let people know so i mean i've put a spreadsheet there's a spreadsheet link at the bottom of so what i'll do is i'll include that at the bottom of my uh invitations and say you know if you're serious about your the solution um yeah and then if you can make some some structure available so that people |
| 1:07:46 | can put a very brief summary of uh you know the solution or and sort of why this is something about maybe the pros and the cons or the arguments for the arguments against i don't know and then a link to some more information and it's up to people to make that link go to something which is readable by journalists perhaps a place of journalist links scientific links where it's more in depth perhaps and i'll include that at the at the bottom each time and so that can be a start yeah thank you very much and please uh |
| 1:08:21 | manage it that's so great to hear you say that uh please keep putting yourself forward uh in this in that way that's great to hear thank you uh john mcdonald i'm i'm just thinking that maybe if we could engage with paul hawkin on this subject that brian's raised the drawdown commission it certainly uh uh in his area in similar books drawdown and regeneration um he might have some serious clout in taking this forward i've been in touch with him in the past yeah you know more brian but with |
| 1:08:57 | what what what others think about trying to bring him in no one's got any comment uh i got his book and uh his thing is uh he he uh what i notice about him it has to be um sort of proven um demonstrated uh drawdown uh techniques and yeah kelp is sitting there um yeah i don't see why he's measured all the techniques of course and then come up with a score of all the different methods and and there are some he hasn't got there that we could add them no doubt but but he's certainly done a lot of work in |
| 1:09:42 | this area so yeah any problem yeah no doubt yeah i think that's a great idea john so i think this is the kind of group that if you don't hear anything then nobody objects okay so i might send him an email and see what see whether we can talk to you yeah excellent john yeah look forward to hearing his response um herb please yeah i'm just responding because you mentioned my name so i thought and you were asking my thoughts so very quickly uh two things first uh i had a brief conversation a couple years ago with paul hawking and i asked |
| 1:10:19 | him about climate restoration and in particular the the um uh what some of our colleagues are uh believing that it's possible to restore the a safe climate and get back to to uh below 300 and heath was so sort of gets to what your point was clyde he was so dismissive i mean he was like angry like these people don't know what they're talking about there's no science behind it so you know it just reinforces what you said in in a personal conversation i had with him not notwithstanding that i mean |
| 1:10:49 | i i think the idea of i mean he just did this wonderful book on regeneration and you know he's certainly sympathetic to that so i'm not suggesting we not reach out but he does require rigor and there's and that and that can be a conflict how how much evidence do you need before you you move ahead but in terms of the you know the question of sort of you know whether it's brian's interesting idea or others sort of where you take it i guess what i would say is a little bit similar to what manager |
| 1:11:17 | said and what hpac is trying to do and i think almost everybody here has attended or is on the hbac list you know there's enormous overlap and that is we've attempted to try to bring people in who have more influence um and also are sympathetic generally you know people like rave pomeranz and gernot wagner um and we you know we'd love to get kelly wensler from silver linings but if there was some way to identify you know maybe not five or ten of these folks that are influential and allies you know to some degree or a |
| 1:11:55 | large degree and even bring them together for some kind of conversation for a half a day or whatever you know very structured very you know organized very carefully thought out not just a bull session um you know i think that could be an enormously valuable uh you know ha now what what i've my experience has been with all these groups is you know we all have very shared uh beliefs about what we need to do and what the problem is uh but it's finding the the the money like you asked for the fifty dollars it's |
| 1:12:26 | finding the money the time people willing to actually write this stuff make the calls send the emails and that like with a lot of groups is you know is challenging yeah yeah um but we have a little mechanism we have a start a start we have a manager um who's going to put together a am it's just a spreadsheet a google sheet i guess um so thanks for that herb yeah yeah absolutely right um doug i um i see a train wreck happening here um i'm not saying don't talk to um hawkin but arya mckenna is going to talk |
| 1:13:08 | to him tomorrow and she's i'm this i might be a little bit out of school but i spent over an hour with her this morning in a sometime on saturday she's organizing um some kind of a deal and she wants me to help reach out to invite people paul hawkins has won bill mckinnon that has won ken stanley robinson is one and the list is is uh maturing but tomorrow morning she is going to do something i'm not sure exactly what if it's going to be hawken or robinson or somebody else so if john and herb or whoever |
| 1:13:45 | um reaches out to hawk and at least touch base with arya first she may not tell you the whole story i don't know if i don't know the whole story or understand it she may have told me but i may not have understood it um so just to speak cautious that's all i'm asking yeah okay i'll call codename with barry first that's fine thanks doug uh john listen oh right i'm i've been talking about uh talking to mike mccracken who's who's offered to help and he suggested writing a scientific paper |
| 1:14:27 | and i said i get back to him on that and so i just wanted to sound out the idea here um could we write a paper and if he suggested kind of dealing with different issues but perhaps we could do it in the form of a a menu of solutions uh and the point about having mike is that he's he's very meticulous about being scientific and and he has a lot of credibility through his past role as a scientific advisor okay so uh if we if we could put down the the the alternatives those are being proposed as we they are proposed solutions |
| 1:15:21 | but the ipcc solution isn't exactly a solution is it so one would just have to say that there there are uh attempts at solutions perhaps yeah that they're in different stages of uh you know development and some have been trialled in various ways and others are still sort of paper solutions um i i'm very keen on having a as far as one could possibly do a proper risk analysis and so i'd be i had raised the question of you know please if you're an economist uh tell me how much climate changes would cost if we allow the sea level |
| 1:16:03 | rise to to to to go um half a meter a meter and and so on and uh what the cost would be at different times yeah allowing a slow sea level rise might be more acceptable than having a rapid rapper okay and it just goes on forever because in that way doesn't it but you couldn't so we need some idea of what is liable to happen if we don't do geo-engineering that's that's that's good um but john maybe you can collaborate a little bit with with manager i mean i think manager should own it you know this should be |
| 1:16:43 | your thing manager and you you say what goes in the spreadsheet because i think you're keyed into how things are perceived by most people but then so this this is more of a scientific approach as opposed to a user friendly right right but uh approach but the thing is that people still need to know that that what they have a summary you know even if it's just a few sentences of what's coming down the line if no no actually you know for all these solutions aren't if you know if nothing's done you know what what is the consequence of |
| 1:17:19 | two degrees or three degrees um i started with this there's a book called six degrees there's a chapter for each degree you know the chapter six is just called six degrees and it's armageddon basically from martin linus um so all this has been known for a long time but but a summary of that but also be good to have the risks of each potential risks of or what people say against these various solutions um benefits of the solution you know might be very cheap and and so and so forth and perhaps what what's being said |
| 1:17:54 | against i don't know i don't know but this is for mana joe to decide i think what what what should go what should be said about each solution but we so we want to see the risk of doing nothing and also what you know perhaps issues for each potential solution or okay so um i could talk go back into sulfate reduction but uh uh herb did you have something else to say your hand's still up sorry um let's go back to because we've got 15 minutes we try and stick to our time here um yeah um so we've kind of we haven't done this |
| 1:18:33 | yet um anything else to say about wales because i would like to just say if possible about solving i put the whale mapping url oh yes thanks yeah basically it's saying that the um 300 000 citation kills are happening every year mainly caused by nets yeah that's going to have a huge effect on recycling nutrients and on carbon sequestration and it's also particularly important when you see how many of them go down to the southern ocean to feed on krill we need to look at how we can improve krill uh populations |
| 1:19:22 | that's probably enough yeah yeah okay thanks for sharing so it looks like a really interesting read that i'm scanned it but good read it later actually sir you i think actually i remember now you um produced a list of climate solutions maybe sorry a dozen getting on for a year ago or six months three years ago and you kind of torn to shreds a bit by it but it was an early attempt so um do you still have that about i mean i think it's so great in the manager's spreadsheet when she gets it going okay great excellent thank you very much |
| 1:20:06 | perfect yeah um okay okay let's see what else we have uh all right back to this um here we go right so in the last 15 minutes um what do we want to talk about there's three things to talk about here the effects of ukraine on climate restoration put down a few points on that yep sure okay first of all it's going to mean that fossil fuel usage goes up dramatically for the next three years um because of the war yeah because of the war um and because russian gas is not not being uh uh won't be used so so much and therefore |
| 1:20:58 | people will be going back to uh coal and frack gas and and oil it's hard to turn the gas off and i'm wondering if they're just going to vent it to air from their wells methane gas oh i don't think it's hard to turn off you just to turn off the valve but secondly there's going to be a um worldwide famine because of the the the amount of grain which uh ukraine produces is not going to be produced so egypt and other countries are going to hit hit the famine very quickly and and prices of grain are going to go |
| 1:21:40 | up through the roof so um that's going to be a pretty nasty result from it and it's hard to see it getting back back to ordinary production in anything under about five years um it will also though push europe to go more into renewable energy europe and japan faster and so that could be a medium-term good good result but those are what i think see the is what's happening with this uh russian aggression into ukraine that's that's done oh any covered widespread famine i don't think has been addressed has it one doesn't see this as |
| 1:22:32 | a consequence of what's happening in in ukraine that they are a bread basket or people for a large area uh or mostly in the in the middle east and you know europe europeans aren't too worried about the middle east unfortunately russia's also a bread basket sorry go ahead yeah so look at look at corn and wheat futures going through the roof unfortunately um it's going to mean that a lot of africa is starving too yeah right eastern africa in particular and furthermore uh yara has shut down production of nitrate fertilizer because |
| 1:23:21 | the natural gas prices are too high and so the supply of nitrate fertilizer is dwindling and the prices of course are going way up yeah the the american politicians being interviewed this evening across the board are saying we've got to do more and it does seem to me that we are on the verge of getting much more proactive in ukraine i mean i i personally hope we stay well in inside the borders but it seems unavoidable that this is going to escalate significantly in the next week or two um maybe that's a good thing to get over |
| 1:24:06 | and done with because there's nothing being planted this year so next year looks really rough or by the way we've just had this cold outbreak in europe and uh there's been massive frost damage across most of europe for the the early planting so things are not looking at all good thank you what can we do oh god it's frustrating what do you oh guarding john is it you're next paleoclimate importance to learn from uh uh got a bit of background noise can't i hope that's not coming through now |
| 1:25:01 | um uh yep um yes just that that if you look at the uh what happened at the end of the emu and the end of the younger dryers there are lots of messages about you know how how rapidly global warming can happen and the consequences especially on sea level rise uh there was uh and how rapidly can it sea level rise um at five five meters per century yeah that was or more i mean that was 14 000 years ago or gathered six um five or six uh was was the maximum i've seen for the melt water pulses that have occurred since the last glacial maximum |
| 1:26:00 | yeah that's that's in the last twenty thousand years yeah but there was a massive sea level rise at the end of the of six to nine meters and there was contributions from arctic and the antarctic um which occurred first as a moot point i thought greenland might be first and hansen was arguing that it was antarctic first well there's a new mutual reinforcement there so if greenland raises uh puts a lot of melt water it raises to sea level at the other end of the pole and vice versa uh and raising the sea level is is the |
| 1:26:46 | big thing that unhinges the glaciers and makes them from uh acceleration okay because it lifts up the ice shelves which then floats away [Music] there's some noise going on here i think it might be eduardo um um [Music] so um yeah so this is about something that could perhaps go on this on the spreadsheet uh the younger dryers or you know the paleo climate history yeah see sea level we're talk they've been talking about two meters by the end of the century which is kind of a bit odd when um only 14 000 years ago with no |
| 1:27:33 | human emissions or negligible um it was going up uh a meter every 20 years a whole meter every 20 years because the melting really got going and and the eemian i think isn't it that the eemian was nine meters higher than today just naturally yeah yeah because of the uh development it's all it's all hinged on the milankovitch yes yeah yeah and the forcing produced by the the milankovitch cycles is the same order of magnitude as the forcing we're producing from co2 so our co2 emissions and uh other |
| 1:28:17 | co2e um uh are mimicking the effect of a malagovich signal but instead of focused in the uh northern hemisphere summer there throughout the year john it's greater qed we should be cooling by nine should have been for a couple of thousand years and we're not exactly yeah yeah this is the orbital variations um we're talking about um spin and wobble and all that sort of thing um yeah uh i'd like to say that just a different thing about paleoclimate you friends and i we always look at uh geological we're |
| 1:29:01 | looking at the geological uh record sort of thing and uh so um we had some tuning and throwing with bosco who's who um it's too late to watch is he's in there to what can take part in these meetings is he's in india but he he would thank me for pointing out kerogen uh so fossil carriage kerogen becomes uh over time long time some it turns into fossil fuels but i think there's a a million giga tons of kerogen um in the rocks and uh this is organic carbon and so this idea that the the the so this was some still some research to |
| 1:29:44 | be done about how much whether really on every occasion just you know you do an experiment you find that 99 of it oxidizes back back to bicarbonate um but is that every situation what about a situation where you've got an ocean full of life what about when the ocean is full of uh i pointed this out to suggest this friend said i must be right an ocean that's full of bacteria got full of biofilm bacteria in it um when you have something in the fridge that's gathering going bad it suddenly goes bad because the exponential the the |
| 1:30:25 | stuff doubles uh every whatever it is you know 12 hours or something the amount of bacteria doubling if you have an ocean that's got nothing in it um then this takes then um you're not going to get this sulfate reduction turning the stuff into sapro chris was saying um i was ashamed he's not here this time saying that we're sort of uh obsessed by sapropol sapropel becomes kerajin uh and there are you know as i said about a million gigatons of this kerajin in the in the rocks so certainly this stuff has happened in the past there's |
| 1:31:02 | been an awful lot of organic carbon produced in the ocean that uh didn't remineralize back so this is i can all just say that this is rather compelling uh area of research to be carried out uh it seems to me that when you have an ocean that's full of life there's a lot of stuff to kind of rot away and lots of rotting bacterias have rotted away pretty quick and we all know that sediments are anoxic and so forth okay last thing hydrogen economy just a few thoughts on that first of all transporting hydrogen is a |
| 1:31:42 | really bad idea you lose some in excess of 30 percent energy simply by by by freezing it it's much better to transport electricity by uh high voltage direct current lines thousands of kilometers and to transport natural gas methane by tankers or pipelines and then to split that methane into hydrogen and graphene on-site on demand when you need it using renewable energy so you know hydrogen-powered vehicles are also much less good than uh electric powered vehicles with with uh power storage and um the only good uses of hydrogen are for |
| 1:32:37 | direct metal reduction for iron and maybe aluminium and for making things like um proteins and and fertilizers on that so i'm just putting my own thoughts of of people saying hydrogen economy is a great thing it's a yes but it's much more limited than than what they they're really saying it is good but it's not the solution we're looking for any comment there's certainly chimes with things i've heard people say um i've heard people say that um once you have cheap hydrogen and if |
| 1:33:19 | you've got high temperature cheap high temperature nuclear power then you can have cheap hydrogen um then uh um then making gasoline from that is easy you add co2 there's plenty of spare co2 around coming from brewing or so for whatever um concrete um uh you can make gasoline you can make methanol methanol is a huge feedstock for chemical industry so i rather agree good for aircraft fuel what's that hydrogen is very good for aircraft but what you you burn it directly or you make it yeah really you can feed it into a gas |
| 1:34:02 | turbine can you store it in an airplane it's it doesn't have the same uh energy density the trouble is it's got a big volume it's light what you can do is you can use tubes full of hydrogen as part of the fuselage structure of an airplane and uh you you you have tubes that are pumped up to about a hundred bar and you can have parallel tubes some of which you've got passengers in some of which got hydrogenated okay interesting thank you stephen uh eduardo i muted you i think that was a noise uh |
| 1:34:38 | you're muted uh eduardo yeah yeah i think you said some other things i i meant to see to say it's okay i think nuclear energy is the solution for producing hydrogen uh and unfortunately it is not uh recognized um for instance deutsche welle the german television runs uh three-quarter of an hour program on hydrogen and the use of hydrogen and they classify hydrogen by gray hydrogen or green hydrogen hydrogen produced with electricity by by coal or by um the the sun or or or wind and they never mention nuclear energy |
| 1:35:40 | which to me is the best option for that high temperature reactors which could be gas reactors or molten solar reactors that in addition to producing the hydrogen they could uh without uh reducing the energy used for for uh producing directly electricity so it is uh an optimum solution to all producing hydrogen in my opinion and if you just put hydrogen production by nuclear in google you'll get any kind of any number of papers um discussing the issue and uh quite uh in favor of uh that um uh procedure thanks thanks eduardo |
| 1:36:46 | yep i think it's coming um let's have john john mcdonald again then we'll come back to you on this yeah just uh the the mining magnate the tricky forest of course is uh pledged to build hydrogen hubs and he's talking about 15 million tons of green hydrogen by 2030 it'll require a lot of governments around the world to sign up as well but he wants he wants to build massive wind solar hydro schemes and uh you know put 50 billion into this so it'll be interesting to see how that pans out that's a big cause no |
| 1:37:21 | certainly is i think we just have to wait until the cheap you know the cheaper option is what they people realize oh look it's so much cheaper this one oh that's one then the other one gets priced out of the market even though it was everybody's favorite i think a lot of these investments are based on on the hope that uh renewals will lower in price over time even further and that'll make it more viable yeah right i always think that uh renewables in some locations are are very compelling it's a |
| 1:37:54 | very compelling business proposition um but then other places like britain solar power not so great anyway thank you john uh john listen and then brew yeah just so quickly um i was just wondering about me uh not instead of generating methane where you've got excess a electric power or power that you need to transport but ammonia um ammonia might might be easier to generate because you've got a nitrogen and hydrogen available do you want to answer that quite it's quite a power hungry process to generate uh |
| 1:38:39 | ammonia so it would be a concentrated source of uh of energy to transport yes it's energy is already there you don't need to make it it's already been transported it's already in the ground it can be a zero emissions uh fuel and and what's more the the the graphene byproduct or co-product can make the cost of the hydrogen almost negligible doesn't it depend how big your market for graphene is um sev yes it does all right let me give you some good news to finish up on um kilowatt labs signed a 20 million |
| 1:39:25 | investment from an american company last friday they're planning to take it to a nasdaq listing at one or two billion by the end of this year um so they're talking about three or four manufacturing factories for these super capacitor physical batteries and uh was seen the inventor behind it has got sitting on his desk at the moment a uh meter square by four millimeters deep sheet of um super capacitor uh structural material uh which has an energy density uh that's right it's about 300 watts per kilogram and he's |
| 1:40:10 | expecting to get up to 400 watts per kilogram so that's structural batteries that will make the the wings and the um fuselage of aircraft and car bodies and the like so it's a big breakthrough that's um that technology moving forward hopefully very very fast now when you say 300 kilowatts per kilogram is that kilowatt hours per kilogram yeah kilowatt hours per kilogram how does that i'm afraid i have no idea how that compares with ordinary batteries is that similar to it uh the best lithium ion is about 320 at the |
| 1:40:48 | moment i think okay wow and this stuff this stuff doesn't deteriorate of course it's fast charges as quick as you like uh and it doesn't heat up but it doesn't mind cold temperatures uh and it goes on and on so and you don't need them to mine scarce uh lithium and other metals get set's going to spin out sheets and sheets of graphene to make them which is brilliant so that's that's a good move but the other bit of good news is that um suddenly nuclear has gone right up the scale and the um |
| 1:41:23 | uh star core small modular reactors tri-coil fuels which are the helium cooled plan seem to be getting some real traction now so um they're anything from four megs to uh the six makes 60 megawatts what are they called against star cool star core yeah critic corporation now in stockholm no star call c a double l it's no star course c-o-r-e star core right okay look at that okay right anything else any last thing we've had our time folks it's been a great meeting uh anything else from anyone people are waving goodbye |
| 1:42:07 | uh john mcdonald uh and friends we want to just make a time for another when we're going to speak again um uh everyone else i think uh i'll just say thank you very much i'll do the usual and uh see you in a in a couple of weeks and uh look out for the uh link from manager if you can send me that link manager i'll be able to put it in the next invite please i'll i'll do that as soon as i create it that's great thank you and if i don't get in the next few days i'll put in sorry brian can you |
| 1:42:43 | save the chat please save the chat yeah uh i can um so i put the chat links in now so let me just ask before you will go i put chat links in i i kind of don't put in obviously little personal uh messages to each other so is that useful to you brian is it has anyone got any comment about the chat in the in the invitations and i obviously it gives me the chat in the folder you know afterwards so i put in just the links mainly i'll put it in the yeah um okay great stuff okay everyone see you see you in a couple of weeks |
| 1:43:18 | john and friends please stay behind sorry which john you're referring uh sorry sorry john mcdonnell we've been trying to arrange to speak okay lovely to see you john um yeah bye bye john uh yes um friends it's quite late for you now isn't it no not too bad no no sure i drank some coffee you drank some coffee yeah we have someone taking notes here i think i |