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| 00:09 | Clark hi Chris hi long time no see yeah I was away last uh round on holiday with the kids probably deserve a holiday yeah any trouble is the emails pile up while you're away they do don't they yeah I've just been away for a week trying to catch up hi everybody hi friends hi Grant uh and uh Sev I can see Brian's there and it's time we started okay let's see make sure I've got a clear screen uh right um so all right so new new file okay agenda |
| 01:19 | I've been a lot of emails flying around recently as well haven't they have stuff here just a few yeah yeah okay uh all right what do we want to talk about today hi Robert and Paige okay so Paige is joining us from uh from uh spark climate who uh made sure we had a presentation a decent presentation to do uh to the spark people hi Paige Welcome to our noac meeting thank you so what we do at the beginning um new people we always ask new people just to very briefly introduce themselves do you mind doing that |
| 02:07 | for sure um my name is Paige brocity now and I work for spark climate Solutions um as a solution ecosystem and solutions and ecosystem roadmaper so I'm working in the methane removal Fields trying to identify what are the key questions that we need to be answering in order to accelerate the development of atmospheric methane removal um and then taking action to support the fields and build the field up to try to accelerate progress fantastic fantastic thank you very much for that so you might have something to |
| 02:43 | suggest for the agenda today which is right now it's completely blank so at this point right right at the beginning um I just ask anyone and everyone to suggest what what we want to talk about for 90 minutes I mean we'll they'll be sort of five or six things hopefully so anything for you Paige I mean because you just said establish the key questions is there anything a question you'd like to ask or discussion to have or anything at all doesn't have to be um yeah I think I um I yeah I don't I don't have anything at |
| 03:23 | this moment I've sprung it on you haven't I yeah yeah given that I'm new to this conversation of what generally gets you sure okay that's fine that's fine that's fine as well okay perhaps we could ask Paige what uh method she's considering for for reading a solve atmospheric methane what what what what her organization is looking at yeah they're looking at ISA but uh I know yeah it's okay so let's do that there because of my maybe other things we hope they're looking at other things |
| 03:54 | um so what um is spark climate uh looking at for methane methane removal but I think and do I think you mean atmospheric method because they're looking at all kinds of things including point source removal as well so we'll just leave it like that okay okay thank you okay anything else uh Grant you've got here you can see you've got your physical hand up thank you I am will informed and and really impressed by the amount of scientific information in the philosophical views that we are seeing in our Communications |
| 04:48 | and where I see a gap is we lack political sponsorship okay given that she seems to be a consensus that nothing happens without those people doing something we need to I believe we need to focus on getting a message to these people that is going to Inspire move and okay engaged okay so how should what should I call this a gender item the search for political sponsorship okay uh I'll just say search sponsorship okay that's the search for survey okay let's put in this there okay from people such as Brian on their |
| 05:49 | projects and anyone else has got a project running okay uh so project updates yep yep okay okay and welcome oh we've got Hugh hunt well looks like he's might be coming along yeah he's got some problems with his camera which is why you're looking at his ceiling okay I'd love to hear an update from from you yeah yes okay that'll be great yep okay maybe one or two more things I mean that these conversations often morph into yeah undulating um develop they take take on a life of their own but um |
| 06:38 | anything else for anybody well actually one thing that might be uh appropriate whether this is appropriate but Robert uh are you are you how's your agenda doing for your trip to the UK and and dates for beating up uh yeah happy to talk about that okay looking forward to meeting in person yeah yeah uh so that's is that a UK trip or a European trip you okay UK trip okay that's a nice little thing we can talk about at the end make sure we uh so if if I'm if we are running out of time very happy for someone to manage me and |
| 07:21 | say um make sure we do that um because it might be other UK people here uh anything else at all maybe that's enough maybe that's enough High you uh oh you appeared for a moment then uh never mind let's allow him to join no no I'm fine I'm just trying to figure out what the my camera is doing language please no sorry what the um yeah yeah okay we understood we understood yes um I thought you'd written written this off or written me off here but anyway here you are so no no no I just uh you |
| 08:02 | know here we are yeah yeah great anything for you to add to this list uh well I'm happy to do a Cambridge update if you'd like yeah yeah great so I think we might spend a long time on Project updates okay so let's start there um so Seb do you want to ask your question directly to uh page and expand it or is that basically it the gender does it for me yeah what what's taking it away yeah what um you know methods yeah uh yeah okay are you ready to say something about that page again we're springing it on |
| 08:37 | you here I'm sure we're happy to expand on that for atmospheric methane rule specifically spark is looking at three main categories one is closed system approaches the second is atmospheric removal like atmospheric oxidation enhancement and then the third is what we call terrestrial methane consumption which is enhancing the ability of the soil or the vegetation which is hosting methanotropic bacteria to consume methane so the closed system approaches are for example full reactors analogous sort of to a direct air |
| 09:20 | capture system for carbon dioxide um so was that a floor reactor did you say hello reactor oh flow reactor got it thank you yeah yeah no problem um so the flow reactors could be could have catalysts within them like thermocatalysts or photogatalysts the trouble with these catalysts is that they are currently not of efficient enough to be climate positive in most circumstances um so that means that the the energy required to power these catalysts may actually exceed the climate benefit of removing the methane um so there's some enhancements that |
| 10:03 | need to be made in the efficiency of those catalysts in order to make a large-scale flow reactor system possible I mean energy like the provision of UV light or the provision of heat there may be ways around this by using passive solar radiation but there's still some questions on if the passive solar radiation is even enough to achieve removal at atmospheric concentrations um so there's the closed system approaches there's also technically bioreactors but it's unlikely that you can build a bioreactor that can function |
| 10:42 | sustainably at only two parts a million methane um closed system next is the atmospheric approaches I assume you guys are all very familiar with Isa there's also the TOA process that Clive and France have proposed um and then there's some other approaches to enhancing the um the amount of hydroxyl radicals in the environment those are still mostly theoretical but they have been proposed um and then on the uh on the terrestrial methane consumption side this is all mostly theoretical there's been some |
| 11:19 | proposals to add different additives to the soil like sulfur or iron or biochar things that might be able to reduce methanogenesis and in enhance methanos rupee um but this is all still very questionable with the open system approaches of course there are considerations of social license and side effects um so we have to make sure that um not there's not more damage being done than um the benefit which is the case for all of these approaches you need to be considering that so anyway that's what spark is working on thanks that's a |
| 11:57 | great uh summary and good idea I'll follow up on that yeah page um uh new trading mythana drops so they can perform their functions better they they tend to need some unusual uh elements such as tungsten copper and molybdenum do their job properly and uh there there are ways which you can uh which you could scatter these um uh minerals for slow release over things like rice paddies patties landfills and indeed the the ocean so that the methanotrops in the water columns uh did did they ate the meeting before it |
| 12:46 | reached the surface I put up my hand I've got one of these methods it's called flakes it's called what burn flakes buoyant buoyant flakes okay um I haven't looked too much into that specifically but that's an interesting proposal uh yeah if you have any literature that you could share um directing you know more context around that I would love to see that have you what what's your email uh my email is I'll put it put it in the chat that's great yeah yeah thank you very much uh Sev uh Robert |
| 13:24 | yeah uh could you say a little bit more about where you're at with each of these threads you know is it a desktop research is it uh it's literature reviews are you doing physical experiments in the lab or you've got field tests planned how long before you expect to get some results or anything what's happening in terms of action sure so spark is a field building organization so we're not typically going out and doing these experiments ourselves but we're supporting the researchers who are doing these |
| 13:52 | experiments so the ways that we intend to support are through funding through building the fields and through fostering connections between people in the field so that they can help support each other we also want to intervene later on the political side to help build political will for advancement for additional funding for these r d approaches um and of course with social license as well so spark right now is more at the literature review and developing questions developing a roadmap for these approaches um so we recently |
| 14:33 | um had a gathering of some professors who focus on different aspects of methane removal so that they could discuss what they see is the key questions within their specific area of study um so we're right now processing the information from those breakout groups to try to understand what are the um the key questions that we need to be answering here in order to accelerate these different areas of study and then going out and soliciting different um philanthropic and philanthropic granters and government agencies to |
| 15:08 | direct funding towards what we identify as the most critical research objectives and do you have any sense of of timing in any of these projects when when we're likely is it anything actually um an engineering an engineering solution at any scale actually out there um being tested yeah at this point I I don't know that I can give a definitive answer on that um I I would hope that it would happen within the next 10 years or so um but it depends very drastically upon like which approach we're talking about |
| 15:42 | and um what ends up happening over the next few years in terms of scientific discoveries okay um I've got a question actually um are you able to say anything at all Paige I mean um Franz and I you know we took part very you know briefly for half an hour in your Gathering uh remotely thank you so much for that it was wonderful to have you speak oh thank you very much that's thanks it was a pleasure um but mostly it was about Isa unsolved aerosol but we mentioned there was one slide on on TOA we're just call it TOA |
| 16:20 | now and it's not even titanium oxide it you know it's titanium-based aerosol you know it's got other things in it um and not even necessarily oxide um but um are you able to say anything at all about you know how much it was was there any interest hesitate to say did it spark interest was there interest in that do you did anybody talk about it what do you do what do you think the prospect is for that regarding Spark yeah I I think that there um there could be some interest from different researchers in in evaluating it |
| 16:51 | um but I I don't know specifics about like what the next steps are moving forward yeah fair enough okay okay yeah I mean and you would have seen my email um to the you know Community the methane removal Community saying please use us you know please make use of me in France um you know friends obviously the expert uh it's all his ideas really um and and friends are very much a chemist um so we're we're we'd love to make ourselves available to any researcher or Professor or whoever it is uh or |
| 17:24 | um somebody proposing funding to because we think it's there you go we're very excited about as everybody is about their own solution okay thank you very much thank you um anything else on that from anyone yeah okay wonderful okay thank you thank you sorry oh sorry I missed that yep Rebecca didn't put my electronic hand up oh sorry okay is very inspiring it's very well organized and easy to understand and access so I think that's a real model as well thank you Paige um yes one of our goals from this |
| 18:02 | convening is to put together a methane removal primer um we want to bring people into this community um and increase the availability of both funding and talent so um hopefully we'll be able to continue spreading um information about methane removal okay okay great yeah fantastic okay let's go to the next thing yeah quickly ask yeah in terms of sorry but my camera is really messing about um uh what about higher concentration sources like in disuse coal mines and in um cow sheds and elsewhere is that uh anything you might like to add on that |
| 18:46 | page yeah so that's um that's not our primary focus um we're we're focused primarily on atmospheric methane Aruba as a very under-resourced part of the overall climate Solutions ecosystem um with point source methane removal we viewed it as as critical and an important step um but not something we're doing too much active Research into um especially since there are um there are commercialized Solutions down to 1000 parts per million um and emerging solutions that will be developed in parallel with atmospheric |
| 19:28 | methane Solutions like if we make progress on building a flow reactor that works at atmospheric methane concentrations then that flow reactor will also work um for higher concentrations as well even more efficiently um so our hope is that developments here will support developments there as well great thank you anyone else because uh I'm there's too many to fit on my little screen of everybody uh so uh if you want the please raise your you know digital hand uh to make it easier um we also have another new person |
| 20:07 | um I don't know if I warned you Adam do you mind just um so you don't necessarily need to put your camera but people wonder if there's a name there that they don't recognize do you mind giving a brief um a very brief introduction very very brief Adam if you're there sure sure sorry about the camera but I'm actually driving right now so that's why um yeah please don't have a crash yeah sure I'm I'm very brief is that I'm uh uh former investment manager worked in private equity and hedge funds and have |
| 20:39 | been recently retired poking around investing in the impact space uh came across the climate arcs uh Venture uh with Clive and others and um just trying to learn more about the space figuring out where to spend my time and have a next ACT is that good enough that's great that's great thank you very much Adam wonderful thank you okay anything else on that on methane removal if not let's move to the next thing Grant you wanted to say talk about this the search for political sponsorship well uh what we're going to hear from |
| 21:12 | you uh where are we going to hear from you uh we've got we're going to talk about how project updates which we'd love to hear from you on that was there something else I missed um Robert uh yeah just project updates sorry that's the next one okay sorry no worries yeah the grant well thank you and I am so relieved to see Doug Grant uh has appeared as well because I was reacting to the email I caught from Doug where he had identified the opportunity to at least in the United States to bring the whole |
| 22:02 | issue of Albedo enhancement to a national political level I as I mentioned before the amount of information and opinions that we have on methodology science chemistry physics and philosophy is a man's is it what amount of opinion that we have is a mess opinion into reality is proof and as what I meant understanding is that in the absence of political momentum we are just sharing opinions and is about as valuable as that is I am concerned about building momentum and traction to get this thing moving beyond our conversations |
| 23:06 | and so my relief is uh profound in this Doug is here because he he wrote more effectively about it than I have been able to describe okay so there was an email earlier that Doug said um how about getting the Congress to have a sort of session on Albedo So when you say oh just not that not sure everybody knows Albedo enhancement with we're saying if you want to actually provide immediate cooling you have to reflect more sun uh Sun away um and uh and so we we regularly discuss here everybody well many people know |
| 23:49 | about putting sulfur in itself a dark side um into the stratosphere a lot of people don't like that um but it looks to be very effective um mimics volcanoes but then we have often have Steven Salter here who uh is the pie the current sort of book flag waiver um for marine Cloud brightening designed to be called a Pioneer because that was other people but anyway he promotes Marine Cloud brightening and has a solution so making clouds brighter and says that um that could be enough to provide the cooling needed to you know |
| 24:24 | restore temperatures um and even refreeze the Arctic he's done some calculations on that so that's what you're talking about with Albedo enhancement and then Doug said uh uh and then I said well you know politicians will only do what they will think will win them votes and if most people haven't heard of it then who knows whether they'll do it or not but um but but we also have people getting newspaper articles uh published now Robert tulip has had was it is it one or two you've had published recently Robert |
| 24:57 | I had an article and a letter to the editor right in and this was an Australian newspaper one was in the Canberra times and one was in the Australian right and then uh you've also been sharing the kinds of responses you got as well which uh people say which were sort of did people denying that there's any problem at all and that you're a doommonger and things like that well uh that was uh John nissen's uh comment uh I didn't get anybody saying I was a dim manga uh but um uh yes there's uh it's I find I I |
| 25:37 | simply find the polarization really interesting and um I think that uh that there's uh a need to uh to cut through that polarization and uh and reckon so I appreciated the email discussion that uh that uh sea level rise uh debate has has prompted um so um it's uh yeah uh yeah great so that's how I see it but um Doug uh sorry Grant rather that um that there has to be media uh present you know the media has to be engaged in this and talking about it uh with articles so there was also an article on iron aerosol from |
| 26:25 | um they call it is it the MIT review it's a something with MIT in its name which we would later talk into MIT that's right technology that's actually not affiliated with the Massachusetts it actually is affiliated with Michael somebody claimed that it's not but it's it's been the MIT Flagship for more than a century okay all right so so that was another thing and and I think it's also worth pointing out that that I both things like you know iron salt aerosol these aerosols and titanium oxide aerosol they |
| 26:59 | don't just deplete methane we suggest strongly suggest that we that and they're designed to do that with the photo catalytic reaction but also would uh in supersaturated that you know in the same way that little particles um aerosol particles that you can't even see pollen and so forth um make clouds that's what clouds nucleate their droplets ontunes um that these aerosols would have the same effect actually they'd be very effective at doing that um so um and so and so these most people have |
| 27:37 | no idea most voters have absolutely no idea most you know even got governments are saying oh yes we need to get to Net Zero which is just CO2 and I also circulated recently Peter wadham sent me a photo maybe I can find it in a moment a photo of the black covering on Greenland ice we looked at actually last Fortnight ago um a video from actually from the BBC so this is another good thing BBC had a documentary on the gray in a huge massive areas of of Greenland that have got soot particles deposited on them so |
| 28:17 | no wonder uh it's melting so fast there and so anything so I think I've spoken enough who's with any any other comments on political uh um making the political what do we say here the search for political sponsorship oh yes um yeah uh before I go before I mention this is the bulletin of atomic scientists uh I must just explain why I um was um said that Robert tulips uh article uh was do mongering [Music] the the people he was talking to just didn't believe uh what he was saying about sea level rise about sea level |
| 29:15 | life they said oh we've had people saying that it would you know a few you know 10 years ago people were saying we would do we'd be tuned by 2020 you know that kind of thing uh that was a kind of response so um it's it's clear that people just do not it are not willing to accept uh the the there's any situation is as dangerous as it is yeah and of course they don't hear that from ipcc they don't hear that from uh if they hear it from climate activists but they the climate activists are completely focused on |
| 29:59 | uh emissions reduction and they are kind of upping the ante for emissions production they're not pointing out the actual the the main dangers we've faced are not it cannot be dealt with by emissions protection they do need SRM yeah okay okay so so um what I'm proposing to do I should have done it by now but I've read it right to the uh bulletin of atomic scientists because they've had two letters to them one from 60 scientists including Hansen uh saying that more research into SRM is needed Jim Henson yep Jim Hansen uh and |
| 30:50 | the other from David Spratt is that oh my God his name right I think so um who who gave a talk um a um 10 or 11 days ago an hpac okay meeting it was right that's one another group just like this one hpac yeah keep going John yep yep and um he uh he's the best person I've heard on the climate issues and and how dangerous it is he's he he was asked by the uh bulletin to write an article on tipping points so he took his reference from uh from the the late um Stefan who'd written a Carol set up a piece on |
| 31:55 | something about exiting the other the Holocene or you know okay into the anthrophe yeah the Tipping points which was a very good uh article yeah I mean there's one there's so much uh you know uh material in in the guardian and the newspapers about the problems um and yet you know I meet people that are otherwise intelligent who just say oh it's a conspiracy and hadn't they realized that CO2 is good for plants they're growing better now with CO2 and M's and so or you know family members |
| 32:34 | that simply don't want to talk about it difficult um well the the clearest thing is that you they're probably right that that uh CO2 is yeah yeah but that but they make that mean it's not a problem they'll say well you know the scientists um haven't realized that and so climate change can't be a problem so just emissions of protection has it will have a tiny effect yeah they don't even recognize that CO2 in additional CO2 is causing there there are deniers and people who just just sort of just Shield themselves |
| 33:11 | away and and don't they don't consider any of this as important and just think activists or yes well there's a kind of polarization but the result of the polarization is in action uh on the SRM yeah and that's and that's our problem we've we've got to try and get both sides to see that there is a solution and it doesn't cost very much and it's actually remarkably safe uh what we're proposing uh MCB if you uh yeah I believe it doesn't cost very much yeah no well yeah but okay just doing it so it's |
| 33:56 | extraordinary nobody's doing it right let's have uh Doug's Grant has had it you've had your hand up for a little while but please thanks clivea and thanks grant for bringing that subject up I wasn't expecting that but um I would like to clarify what what Clive very quickly summarize but the thought I had was if we had sir David King as Sir David Attenborough testify along with John Kerry and uh Jim Hansen and Michael Mann for God's sake we've got the whole gamut there of all the all the perspectives at one table in |
| 34:35 | a senate and and house herring um if we could somehow orchestrate that but I don't want to go forward that unless if I don't have somebody's support on getting the two sir David's involved and somehow get you know you know um it'd be a major event in itself I guess wouldn't it that would be that would be covered by the media that there's this idea of of of uh Marie brightening the planet you know and providing a direct calling to buy more time and they'd be a whole controversy but at least yeah |
| 35:10 | thought I had was to have a hearing to get testimony on MCB well let's put it this way the umbrella of SRM and specifically to to weigh in on MCB and Sai and to differentiate those publicly Stratosphere yeah yeah and I even mentioned the word geoengineering but talk about solar radiation management and anyway to differentiate and to raise awareness and to get the conversation started these Senators don't have to support it they can call a hearing and there's Republicans there's as many Republicans |
| 35:47 | as there are Democrats on these on these in fact there's more in the in the house it's a majority Republican but if we could get those hearings to happen with with those five people wouldn't that be amazing yeah okay um we've got Mana Joe with your hand up manager yes I just uh first of all I support what Doug just uh proposed I and I have organized several Congressional briefings so um but a hearing is is all the better because you bring bring Witnesses um but my suggestion and I've kind of |
| 36:28 | offered it before but I feel more strongly about it is there are a lot of climate scientists in our universities and many of them for example mark deterring from Lamont Daugherty or this institute um that's Columbia University anyway she just came back from a research uh expedition to Greenland and I I will send around um the link to her presentation and we've had a couple other I think that we need to start in addition to and because it's urgent um try to influence decision makers but I think we need to engage |
| 37:27 | the research Community um and and some of them are looking at at some form of geoengineering for example weathering and um phytoplankton farming but um I just want to encourage us to find a way to maybe have a special meeting and each person that's been participating invite two or three courageous uh people researchers and people from Academia so that's okay yeah okay they have a lot of influence in their community okay okay thank you manager uh Robert yeah this is an interesting subject that I've given quite a bit of thought to |
| 38:28 | really and clearly we do need to get um engaged with honestly because the decision makers and key influences on the a range of issues around Albedo enhancement about the Technologies and about the risks doing it the risks of not doing it and so and so forth but for me there is actually a prior question that is uh almost more important because I fear that what we're what is happening here we because we're all quite knowledgeable about these issues we are kind of stuck into the weeds into the detail and we forget that uh the |
| 39:03 | majority of these people they don't have the knowledge that we've got and they don't have the concerns we've got and indeed Justice all right the the cohort of readers of the Australian might be a particularly extreme end of public Awareness on climate change but our policy makers and decision makers and politicians uh you know are not that far behind them to be frankly I think in many cases and the critical point here for me is this that even now it is not widely understood that we are facing a genuine climate emergency it is |
| 39:41 | a real existential threat and the political Community around the world has not yet woken to the fact that we are genuinely running out of time and uh given the inertia in the climate system we don't actually have that much time to react and to to do stuff if we are going to avert a true uh truly calamitous situation so for me the first base is somehow to get the political classes and those who influence them to understand the true nature of the emergency we are facing and not until they have grasped that in my view will they be receptive |
| 40:24 | to disreparate to presentations about the various technologies that you would um that you would Implement in order to deal with that emergency so they'll ask well why should I get excited about Sai or about Marine Cloud brightening why do I need why do I care well you have to ask her you have to answer that first question you should care because if you don't the future is getting very very Grim for your kids and grandkids so I to me I think that the point that Doug is making and and the the the uh the question uh |
| 40:57 | that he's raising uh and the route he's proposing that we attempt to follow to get uh in front of politicians is absolutely critical and I have raised this myself elsewhere uh but I think that the prior question is to really get across the gravity and the criticality of our situation first and foremost as a as a route to dealing with the Technologies and various options and where the money should go to the research and how it should be organized and the fact that all these little National silos are a completely |
| 41:31 | complete nonsense it's a global problem we should be acting globally in collaboration some countries are better equipped to deal with certain types of Technologies than others because they've got more sunlight or because they've got more they've got more coastline or whatever it may be it's a classic case to those of you at uh economists is the classic case of going back to uh Ricardo a famous 19th century early 19th century uh British Economist who came up with the notion of uh comparative advantage |
| 41:57 | where certain countries are better equipped to do certain things because of their resources I mean we don't grow a lot of pineapples in the UK for obvious reasons and I think that the same applies to geoengineering and to approaching all forms of approaches to climate change that we need to leverage off the assets of individual locations and stop this nonsense of working in National silos so all of these I think are critical issues that need to be gone across to the particular classes as a as a precursor to looking at the detailed |
| 42:30 | Technologies okay thank you Chris uh you're you're muted Chris yeah um yeah I just wanted to come back on what manager said because I think she's made an important Point actually because going to the politicians and trying to get them to pick up on these issues when a very large fraction in the research Community won't support you is not actually in a helpful position um so if they can point out and say look 90 of the researchers don't think you know don't agree with you then it's |
| 43:02 | probably going to stymie your approach to the politician so actually when we need to try and get a reasonably large body of the researchers on board first before I think before you can really make have a good chance of making Headway with the politicians I agree very much with what Robert Chris said as well but I just thought I wanted to make a point about that yeah thank you thank you uh Grant I think the uh there is a task of politician that we are ignoring which are called opportunists are there all politicians opportunist |
| 43:41 | which probably Embraces all of them because you're right but trying to educate one or more of them in the technologies that we are so involved in and in love with is not the message the message we has to be what's in it for them and my particular interest is the state of California whose economic prosperity and Future is facing immediate short-term risk and if you like that could be the existential uh threat to any politician they have access to their own internal experts they have access to researchers in the west coast of the |
| 44:39 | United States who are very engaged in all of these Technologies and we're looking for somebody who's going to say yes I would sponsor a political Convention of looking at these things that we could be doing Beyond emissions reduction California's strategy has been wholly focused on emissions reductions and a couple of things have happened a nuclear power plant that was meant to be shuttered in 2024 has been had as a license extended for another three years why was that because there's not enough |
| 45:27 | energy for California's economy to thrive they just opened another oil line or the president approved an oil feed from the from Alaska increasing fossil fuel deliveries to the west coast of the United States because without these our economies would crater these are realities and I've said it I don't think I've said it in this forum before but many years ago there was some politician who said it's the money stupid my message is it's not carbon dioxide it's the heat stupid um yeah and here we are sitting on the |
| 46:21 | opportunity to make a difference in that that without you know with respect manager I agree with you we need researchers to come on board but I one of the other things I've discovered is that the Silence of researchers as a large group is not a indication of their lack of Interest in Saving the planet what if they don't see it don't see it as their role marine biologist primary or an oceanographer if it's primary interest saving the environment that he knows about but why should you get out there |
| 47:03 | and publish something that's a little on the extreme and face the vitriol and the denigration and the lack of sourcing of funds because he actually spoke out yeah well maybe uh some of these scientists warning uh signing opportunities uh you know that could be another thing that could be done get lots of scientists you know invite lots of scientists you know would you sign it will you sign this sort of uh opinion piece or something yeah you know what I'm what I'm saying okay thank you grant we've got lots of people with |
| 47:41 | their hands up um Rebecca please um I don't know what our action point is this morning about this but I'm really interested in hearing from Cambridge and the other project updates tonight we'll get to that we'll get to it we'll get it so anything else on this so this this is about yeah I'm I'm conscious actually and here's a picture of of the Greenland ice I mentioned that's from Peter Wadhams uh look at that that's not funny is it um um anyway um it's not clear that that picture is |
| 48:17 | uh conclusive that it's dirt because the um one of these one of the there's research has been done that suggests that because the the warm period the summer is it is longer in Greenland that what's happening is that algae is growing more vigorously for longer periods and that what we're seeing is the very normal uh process of algae in the summer but that because the summers are longer and warmer algae is growing thicker yeah um they they do know that there is soot particles particles that that in fact |
| 49:05 | Peter's working on that now as I understand it uh Hugh uh to identify the chemicals fullerenes you mentioned um micro sort of structured carbon structures um so yeah maybe you uh I accept what you're saying that just by looking at that picture it's it's that doesn't prove it um so it could be the effects of algae yes fair enough and then on the on the question of um of of getting more research done um one of the one of the things that has been uh difficult to deal with is that research is not just scientific research |
| 49:47 | but it's also social science research and the situation we're in is that there are there are a hundred times more papers published on the social sciences um then there is in the in the actual Sciences if I can call it that so for instance if I were to propose some technology for uh Albedo enhancement um then all sorts of questions will be asked about oh well uh moral hazards and ethics and governance and uh how much will it costs and and all sorts of things but the question that isn't asked is um well |
| 50:35 | does it work and well I don't know yet because we haven't done that research yet the the questions that people endlessly ask is on governance and public perception and all these sorts of things and we get swamped with dealing with the questions of governance and public perception and moral hazard and the actual research that needs to be done never gets done and uh and it's it's sad but that's where we're at I don't know how many billions of perhaps of research money goes in to the ethics and governance |
| 51:15 | side of stuff and yet we're we're still not getting the actual deployment research done thank you um anything else from anyone else I don't see okay so yeah yeah um John I'm sorry John yeah yes uh briefly um HCA meeting on Saturday we we did discuss the possibility of involving the military uh because they they understand risks that's one of their subjects you know oh yeah long ago they said climate change is a threat multiplier yeah um and it is indeed and we can see this happening already and the US should be uh |
| 52:06 | particularly uh concerned uh yeah there we go migration is becoming a global problem yeah yeah anything else to add about the military John because we want to go well we were looking we were actually looking for like yeah how do we get hold of the uh the dod and we were fishing around for suggestions yeah so if anybody has some ideas on that that'd be great you'd like to hear from them okay yeah thank you John please anyone else on this subject okay so let's get get to um project update so Sev this is your |
| 52:52 | question well first one is so Hugh I think CSC project update so that's the climate repair center at Cambridge cc crcc is it yeah well um things are going great guns we've um we've got uh um in the engineering department we've got three parallel projects one on um uh Electro spray generating droplets um another one on uh a uh superheated steam um uh flashing nozzle and the third one trying to replicate the Steven Salter um uh silicon based silicon uh manufacture-based nozzle um and as with all of these things |
| 53:46 | um everything is much more difficult when you try to do it than uh it might appear to be when you write something down on a piece of paper um uh and so all of these things are moving forward uh as fast as we can the um what we're finding for example with the the Silicon uh uh process is that the um the manual manufacturing processes when you come to the detail uh well they're quite fiddly uh and but we're getting there it's it's it's it's nice and then what we're discovering as |
| 54:24 | well there's my ridiculous camera thing I don't know why it's doing that but it's quite fun um what we're finding as well is that the um um the um measurement of droplet size distributions is extraordinarily um uh uh error error prone and so what we've got is two or three different methods of measuring droplet size distributions that give different answers um and so the idea that oh you just buy a or rent or borrow a droplet sizer and you measure well um that's that's kind of um uh the mistake that people make you buy |
| 55:20 | an instrument and you you trust it have you talked to people that know about measuring droplet size yeah absolutely but we've got people in our group at the department we've got um uh one of the things that happened because of covid is that uh Adam Boyce who you may have come across he he and his group got very very excited about measuring covert droplet size distributions um so just in the in the lab next order hours they've got two or three different droplet size measuring devices um yeah they all give different answers |
| 55:55 | it doesn't can't he say look this is the reason you're getting these errors you know I know we know the reason we know the reason without the reason we're getting the errors um but that doesn't tell us what the what the actual answers are so the the thing that the thing that happens is that um most of these droplet generation processors give quite wide droplet size distributions um and because we're dealing with generating um liquid water liquid droplets with salt in them um unlike other things where you're not |
| 56:33 | dealing with the evaporation um what happens is that in the very short distance from where your droplets are generated to where you suck them in to go into your droplet size measuring device you've got some unknown amount of evaporation and the smaller droplets evaporate more quickly than the bigger ones the bigger ones uh hit the sides of the tube that your that your uh so you get a very a large underrepresentation of the larger size droplets the smaller droplets you measure lots of them because they know they're the tiny ones |
| 57:13 | that that make it make their way through so long story short we're trying to uh get to the bottom of how accurately to measure droplet size distribution uh and I'm a knockerman this has been very helpful we're in discussion with them um we're in discussion with all sorts of people on droplet size measurement things um so well it goes through wonderful plushies have you tried the black plastic idea look let me drop everything and try the black plastic idea we've got n people and N times four things to do |
| 57:55 | yep okay solves the evaporation problem yeah why don't you do it because I'm not a scientist I don't have a lab you have you've had the information for three years now you haven't tried it likewise adapting commercial spray nozzles I haven't heard of any word of that are you still with us Sir Hugh as soon as you you haven't chased him away and throwing them off have you oh no he's always down his camera maybe he's dealing with his camera yeah well are you there Hugh I think we have to |
| 58:47 | move on so I'm happy I'm happy you've got more to say I'm just listening to what you've got to say it's very interesting to hear what you say so but me I'm just wondering I'm just I'm just hearing it thanks very much I'm very I'm very happy to know that um I'm not doing what I was um instead I promised I would do I apologize well okay okay um uh that leaves something in the space um any more updates yeah for me or I mean I said enough I mean um anyone else someone else Rebecca I have |
| 59:36 | been doing a lot of reading about Marine Cloud brightening and Hugh I am very heartened to hear the scientific work that you're doing which maybe I'm not looking in the right places but I haven't seen the detail of it in any where I've been looking um what I have been wondering about like I've got nothing but [Music] um thanks and support for what you're doing in particularly the whole thing of trying to get scientific evidence knowledge improved um what I've been wondering through my |
| 1:00:10 | reading is what is the particular contribution of what Stephen is proposing it seems to be about the precise droplet size and also the way in his field simulation paper that he was talking about measuring the effects where he had quite a interesting sophisticated way of taking Satellite photographs and rotating them and superimposing them what my question is without taking away from all the scientific work that you're doing but how does the work you're doing relate to the other world of NCB which is the public face of it is the MCB |
| 1:00:50 | project with Washington State University and what I really like about their work is they've got um six scientific steps about starting off with droplet size um and I can't replicate it because I haven't got it in front of me but looking into each one of those and building the social license at the same time I really like their open governance framework and they say they're trying to build up knowledge and governance among the researcher Community because there's no government governance um in place but I suppose what I'm |
| 1:01:27 | wondering is what particular what what's the um like Stephen last meeting said he had a two million two pound two million pound budget for his research proposal and I can't work out what particular um your beauty thing is that doing given how much masses of MCB research and talk talk there is so you can't work out what that budget's for are you say a particular contribution is Stephen hoping to make is it about the book I think you'd have to ask him um he's not with us this time saying that to you that I'm wondering how their |
| 1:02:07 | work is located in the MCB project scientific landscape if he's got the time to answer that yeah okay is there anything to say about that Hugh well all I can say is that um about nearly 10 years ago Stephen Salter published a paper about how to make a silicon-based droplet generator um and 10 years later where is it so we've decided to try and build one and discovered that it's actually really difficult to build one um it's it's and fun if he's got a budget of two million to build one uh then we should we should use that |
| 1:02:54 | budget um we're finding that it's not money that's the object it's technology um you know we're not it's not costing us two million to try and build one of these things it's just really difficult and we've got we've got a top of we've got a world-class um nano technology lab to work with um and it's proving to be really difficult so that's what I would say on that you know we're not we're not um it's not for one to try and then on the on the question of um |
| 1:03:32 | uh you know what are we what are their objective our objective is to take the techniques the technologies that others have been uh developing elsewhere in the world and to reproduce them because one thing's for sure is that I'm not going to trust the future of our planet to an idea that one person says is fantastic and it's gonna and it's and it's gonna work I'm gonna say all right that's good let's let's let's reproduce it and so far we are having great difficulty in reproducing yeah the work that other |
| 1:04:12 | people have done that's very clear um Hugh um I'd just like to ask myself if that our titanium um if I don't people don't mind me playing our own trumpet for instance for a second uh aerosol this is a technology that's been around since the first world war they used they they used it to make clouds to obscure military operations um so um we sent an email sent email to uh uh what's your other what's your colleague uh Sean Sean Fitzgerald and Dave and Sir David King we didn't get a reply |
| 1:04:54 | are you just sort of got so much going on that you're not really able to look at other things or have you got an opinion about titanium oxide as a as a way of making clouds well it just happens to be that's not what we're looking at right now so um we are quite a small team and we're um we think it'd be rather easy to do you just make a vapor of this of this stuff and it just makes it makes clouds like just like that simple you don't have to have a tiny nozzle you can have a big white big wide pipe |
| 1:05:28 | anyway I'll just I'll just leave it go ahead go give it a go yeah well we don't have the funding um so well if it's so simple then it should be cheap it should be cheap why do you do it well um I I don't I it's not it's it's relatively cheap but it's not that's not cheap compared to what I got in my my back pocket anyway we'll leave that for that thank you um and John you have a comment if you hand up Jon Nissen please you've got your your muted briefly please so we can get onto |
| 1:05:59 | another project John yeah you may have noticed that Stephen Salter asks for my repeat send of my calculations about how much uh cooling MCB could produce in the Arctic and I'd reckoned it was no point one five Peter Watts um and we needed a lot uh more than that um to uh represent so you were saying that Steven's calculations for marine Cloud brightening are insufficient are not correct anyway that that Marine Cloud brightening wouldn't provide sufficient cooling well I I I've used his figures where possible and I come out with a uh |
| 1:06:54 | with this answer and I've asked him for Corrections okay I'd like to see how that develops then yeah between you and him yeah but I mean it's very unfortunate because I don't want to you know I've always supported Marine Cloud brightening in the hopes that it that's all right I mean as an idea but but you have that's tough You Know It's just tough if you're a scientist you have to look at the data don't you exactly you have to do the engineering calculation except what you see you know even if you |
| 1:07:31 | like the person that's got it wrong thank you uh Rebecca um yes on that one that John just mentioned I actually printed out all the emails from the last conversation and Stephen was actually asking for you to validate his assumptions John so I do not feel the question is answered as a complete layperson I think the conversation is still happening and I don't know who if anyone could uh well you you probably don't realize that I was actually using his assumptions well you know what John I did look at it |
| 1:08:08 | quite closely and what I'm saying is it needs a great mind to forensically look at things because I think it's not respectful you know where we're at at the moment and I'm not having a dig at you I'm just saying that the question is requiring further examination from what I've seen of the correspondence and I don't want to say anymore just now okay thank you Rebecca um and and Hugh I don't want you to be left with sort of people having a go or certainly not me anyway having a go at |
| 1:08:41 | you I mean people could say what they want here as long as it's reasonably respectful um and I I I I can hear what you're saying that you've got three different ways of uh types of experiments going on for making you know sort of aerosol clouds and it's all and uh the technology involved is very difficult um and that yes there are other options or other ways of doing things but you know got a small team and you're working with the budget you've got you don't you think you you think you're doing the |
| 1:09:09 | best you can and I think we're all grateful for that well certainly I am anyway I think most people are um so let's move on uh Sev another project is there another project you want to there's grinding got any update is Brian with us you there Brian Brian uh Von Hudson he's got his um Note Taker but I don't actually see Brian there so I think we have to assume Brian's not here to uh today uh anything else Chris uh sorry uh Sev rather about does John know whether the uh the Great Barrier |
| 1:09:45 | Reef people are going forward with their MCB no I don't know John MacDonald the process has slowed down a little they're really you know in a in a stage where they're trying to get their droplets right the right size and like uh been struggling with that I think so I think it's it's it's it's not preceding the same Pace it was but it's still it's still happening I think next year that or later this year they're hoping to get out there and do another experiment on the reef and do |
| 1:10:22 | it a larger scale that's why I've just I've just I've just done one just a few uh weeks ago where they were they went out on their boat and they were flying a plane through the clouds and doing some more measurements so that's still they're still yeah that's right that's right they are they they're moving forward they do it they're doing it cautiously and carefully and step by step in a very logical fashion yes it's it's quite exciting what they're doing actually |
| 1:10:50 | well one of the things that's really exciting I think is that they do have the social license because for 10 years they've been working with the Great Barrier Reef Authority um and the indigenous people uh all pulling on the same rope and we ought to we ought to to learn as much as we can from them uh as to how we could do the same kind of thing in the Arctic yeah it's a great pro forma of how to go about it the way they've gathered the team together and and there's been virtually zero objection to what they're |
| 1:11:27 | doing so extraordinary it isn't it is an example of how you go about it but it's interesting that the the the the objections have come from believe it or not the scientific community so the the issue I think that they face with the Great Barrier Reef is that Marine Cloud brightening that's it's if you had to pick a place in the world to apply Marine Cloud brightening it's not very good because the um uh the the atmospheric conditions are not well suited to Marine Cloud brightness but if you use I think they they call it hazing |
| 1:12:14 | the idea that if you if you if you light a bonfire um and you get the smoke that kind of drifts across your you know your back garden and you're a bit pissed off with them because you don't like the smell or you don't like it that smoke is creating a cooling effect now it may well be that it's not creating droplets which then go up into the clouds to do Marine Cloud brightening maybe what the number one effect which will be of huge benefit to the Great Barrier Reef is the creation of droplets which stay |
| 1:12:52 | down at low level and um and cool the and and reflect and help to cool the waters um so whether it's Marine Cloud brightening or whether it's hazing or whether it's whatever you might like it to be the one thing that you need for any of these techniques is an efficient droplet generation technique and that's what they are doing they are providing a platform at scale for testing droplet generation is uh actually sea salt aerosols I pure salt very very tiny uh solved crystals which stay aloft because they're so so |
| 1:13:43 | so tiny so it is useful that's the point exactly the point I'm making yeah so and and yet if it's if it's couched in the framework of marine Cloud brightening then the Marine Cloud brightening world would say this is a failure because well okay it might be but in terms of an aerosol generation platform it's a huge success so I just needs a different name call it Marine Cloud cooling or something it's just a simple fogging machine which they can do locally uh to Target you know stressed areas of coral |
| 1:14:22 | so fogging is a different thing there's there's sort of three things there's Cloud brightening there's fogging and there's hazing right and I think these are the three things we've got to get our heads around a bit what's the difference between fog and Haze is haze not water then yeah okay right right yeah okay so once you produce as uh as Seth says once you produce these tiny salt crystals uh water is out of the out of the equation whereas fog is um you don't need the salt you can just |
| 1:14:55 | produce a water fog so you know fogging and hazing are low level they're not going up into the clouds but they're one is a salt crystal uh phenomenon the other is a water droplet phenomenon the middle of these techniques they're they're agonizing over that the energy inputs absolutely and if the energy input is if the energy input is bigger than the than the cooling yeah and it's not no point yep okay uh any other comments I think Stephen Salter has found that the energy input for making a salt crystal out of |
| 1:15:42 | salt water is um six orders of magnitude less than the uh SRM effect you get we've all done that calculation and we've also done you know there's so lots of things in life where in theory um you know the cold fusion God the calculation is a no-brainer we should do cold fusion um but can you do it well now I've done it yet it hasn't been done I think we we're talking uh about this over a year ago when uh Armand nukemans joined us and he said it's very difficult you won't do it and it's |
| 1:16:32 | you know we we've but you're having a go with with students you know we're having a go but it's not good enough we've got to keep working on it yeah you think it's worth continuing then you think you might there might be a breakthrough same with cold fusion but look of course the reason we do all these things is because it's it it is as Seth said it isn't thermodynamically impossible um and if we can find a way to do it it's like battery research now people are saying there's no reason there's no |
| 1:17:12 | reason why we can't make batteries 100 times lighter than they are they're not there's no law of physics it says we can't do it but we just haven't figured out how to do it yet um yes okay he wouldn't be he wouldn't consider um sacrificing one percent of your budget or a small percentage of your budget so um try these um chloride vapers you can give as much as money as you like it's not it's not budget which is a problem everyone's everyone is flat out doing the stuff that I need to do yeah so |
| 1:17:52 | well with more budget wouldn't you have another team member more space to do things it's not available please consider this okay I can tell you number one thing is that whenever we are offered money the University has to go through a year-long process of checking that we're not getting money which has been generated from ex child exportation from the slave trade from uh illegally from drugs so and when finally the money is is uh reckoned to be kosher then we put out an advertisement we applied you know we put |
| 1:18:54 | out where we get yeah you know it's we don't we don't just say hey there's somebody over the over the road there let's give them the money they can work for us it doesn't work like that no fair enough it isn't a fast process yeah okay and what happens is the other thing that happens is you do get a really good person you've employed with the money you've got and six months later they get a job offer from from Google deepminds which pays them 10 times as much and off they go and you have to start the whole |
| 1:19:27 | process again so yes we've got people but they're you know people move around hmm can I just um mention something you you said that you you did have somebody looking at uh stratospheric aerosol injection by studying volcanoes has been recently a volcano at high latitude in Eastern Russia on the um okay it doesn't matter where and it's produced a heck of a lot of SO2 uh and there are maps of the SO2 but it doesn't the maps don't tell you what height it is and how much is in the stratosphere |
| 1:20:16 | uh would it be possible for your researcher to dig around and see if you can uh find out how much is going to into the stratosphere and uh which researcher is this I thought you said you had somebody looking into Sai but we had our spice project which was in 2010. no no you've got somebody recently because I asked you somebody looking at status Eric aerosol injection as well as M MCB oh well I wonder who that is something that you could look look into probably we've got somebody who's looking at paleo paleo volcanic eruption |
| 1:21:09 | all right well we've got a non-paleo and right up to date one which they could look at in real in real time but if if they don't have a capacity John there's no problem no no I'm just saying this would be nice yeah something nice and easy you could put in front of them well I think we're not going to see you again here for a long time I think after after today are we oh look I don't get me wrong I'm not I'm not hold on my bloody cat I don't know don't worry about it keep going we |
| 1:21:41 | can just hear it it's very good I like this it's very psychological Talking Heads yeah um yeah but it's quite good because it seems to uh it seems to put everybody else in you know um no I'm not it's not it's not for what want of willingness to uh to join these meetings but um I normally do most of my teaching on Mondays and by the time I get to eight o'clock I'm I'm pushed okay um look it's half past ten at night here yeah it is yes and it's bank holiday so you've arrived |
| 1:22:17 | it yeah uh the possibility of catching up in in Cambridge yeah where they're going to be here uh so I've put my dates in the chat um so I'll uh I'm hoping to catch up with people in London on uh the 20th of May and then we travel up to uh to Edinburgh and and then back in uh in London between the third and uh seventh of June and I'd be eager to be brilliant yeah and uh so um what I'd like to do is uh is um uh agree a day in Cambridge when you and hopefully show on and perhaps others uh would be good can I just say that uh |
| 1:23:10 | this doesn't really apply to people in other countries uh America in particular that they might like to just say goodbye now and I mean by all means stick around and listen to us talking about making uh dates um I'm just going to say um thank you for attending everyone who doesn't want to listen to this last part uh and see you again in two weeks and there'll be the usual uh um recording and so forth so see you in two weeks and uh and goodbye look forward to that and now we're moving on to this um talking about uh |
| 1:23:49 | Robert's visit sorry uh here I interrupted you no I was just going to say why don't we do this offline Robert well it's also Robert Chris and possibly John listen um as well that's fine so all I can say is that I'm not going to be in Cambridge on that weekend uh which is this weekend the third the one that you put in the chat which was the beginning of June so you were saying what about say Tuesday the 6th of June you said the first the Cambridge third to the 7th of June that's right yes well the third is a |
| 1:24:30 | Saturday yep Sonic fourth is the sun I'm just saying I'm not going to be around on uh the third and the fourth I'm not going to be in Cambridge and then the fifth time flat out all day with project meetings student meetings so I'm really only available um uh six slash seven okay that'd be great I like the Tuesday the 6th I think would be ideal uh um uh let's uh let's aim for that and would you have a like if there were a few people who wanted to uh to visit um which I think is quite likely uh then |
| 1:25:15 | uh should we agree uh where to catch up yeah well why don't we do that all um let's just work that all out um in the detail um offline with emails yeah I mean I'm not gonna I'm not gonna promise to organize a a big uh um a big thing beer festival I mean oh when is the beer festival [Laughter] you may find it is the Cambridge beer festival that week I don't know um well I I suppose all I'm all I'm asking you is would the does the setup for climate repair have uh have a venue that we could book |
| 1:26:02 | we can we once we can organize a thing that day how many people are you talking about look I'm not sure John Nissen was uh was interested in coming and Akim and a couple of other people all right in in Broad principles why do we aim to do an event in Cambridge on the 6th here I am yeah here I am speaking off the top of my head um in the in the department of engineering I could I can almost certainly book something then um fantastic and uh yeah let's do it okay I'll follow up with an email and uh and send it to Peter watams was |
| 1:26:46 | interested but I think he might be in Italy so yeah yeah we'll work it out I mean if if we can uh have a few hours in the morning and a few hours in the afternoon that would make it worthwhile uh West while my uh from Bath and and Robert Chris how are you placed yeah I could probably make that a day a day in Cambridge is always a nice day out for the evening as long as I know is all you have to do is to is to buy Robert a glass of wine and he'll travel anyway and and what's more he'll end up paying |
| 1:27:24 | for it anyway anything [Laughter] well okay I I should just mention you know sorry to hear Barry Humphrey's passing away he said had quite a a history in the UK as well as Australia so anyway yeah look I must have it I I've felt very sad I did I I really shed a tear when I saw that news because he was such an incredibly intelligent funny perceptive it's an extraordinary guy just knew how to anyway yes yes humor was he was so gentle wasn't he it wasn't so um I just lost him yeah anyway there we go |
| 1:28:18 | there we go now it's Robert Robert Chris you said that you uh were possibly going to be in hospital at that time is that yeah there is a possibility I still I was given a date for this surgery uh and then when I spoke to the hospital they said hmm that's interesting the surgeon's not in that day so um I'm not quite sure what day it's going to be yet so it's just an open issue because I'll be in hospital I'll be in hospital for about 10 days when the time comes but it'll at the moment |
| 1:28:50 | it's supposed to be in June but I don't know what I don't have a date so we'll just assume that um I'll be there and if I'm not there I'm not there you know well maybe we could book a spare room next door to yours and we can have the meeting there laughs adding the nozzles in so we can have a look at them well we could do we could I could maybe maybe you're ready for surgeon to give you the same treatment that sounds so enticing yeah you you I might be able to invite some some people from |
| 1:29:23 | my uh Arctic methane emergency group uh hey mate we just met for an awfully long time uh you know that last meeting was just an agu and there or the Ice stick keep going John is there is that Ash actually more or less reflective than the than the black suit on the ice uh what what is its Albedo component what's it do on the ocean I mean it's not just a stratospheric exercise I think it would be an important study actually if we get a university to take it on a difficult part of the world of course to operate that you can do a lot of it |
| 1:30:04 | remote can't you so um yeah let's it's a good one to push John definitely should be studied yeah there must have been all the other studies there must have been lots of studies of pinotubo and so forth those whoever did those studies presumably the same departments would study this wouldn't they John John listen oh yeah um I mean it I I think they've been waiting for a volcano yeah to to uh erupt at a suitable latitude and time of year they they want something so if it's already being |
| 1:30:38 | covered we don't want to distract you on something else being looked at by others but I haven't got wind of anybody actually studying it except I've seen a map okay yeah so to distribution which looks as if it's almost entirely what they show is almost entirely in the troposphere because it's been blown around by dead streams and things you could ask um what's his name um that guy from New Zealand um sorry the one we could the one that came here I couldn't control him and we had to mute him both times |
| 1:31:21 | Aaron Franklin yeah I just put the thing in the chat from NASA about it which I found yeah oh great there's a plenty of flipping comment um Robert are you are you saying that you're coming to London on the 20th yes uh I'd like to catch up live with you and and others in London on uh on Saturday the 20th and uh and then in in Cambridge on uh on Tuesday the 6th and uh I the theme I'm interested in is Albedo enhancement uh so um if we could uh arrange a uh a seminar uh percent of uh climate repair in |
| 1:31:58 | Cambridge on on this Tuesday the 6th of June on Albedo enhancement then um that would be uh awesome and I'll send an email to um everyone here uh Chris are you interested in this um I can't be in Cambridge then I'm away uh at that time I could be around on the 20th but not on the June dates and where it where are you Chris uh I'm actually in a place called Burnham Crouch which is about one hour by train out of Liverpool Street Station in London so I can get to London quite easily wow okay all right so I'll I'll just |
| 1:32:35 | follow up with an email and and hopefully we can uh look forward to getting together thank you okay and I I'm I'll be able to do the morning in Cambridge on the 6th but I'm not sure about the afternoon we're generally rather busy on Tuesdays um but but could see you on um the 20th of May coming soon Robert um that's great well and unfortunately I I will not be well as things currently stand I'm not available [Music] do we want to make a time when we can all all three of us meet up you me and uh both Roberts and me |
| 1:33:18 | well Roberts just said he won't be available on the 20th so yeah is that the only time you're in London then Robert uh well then I'm back in London uh from the uh the second from the third of June until the 7th of June yeah and and I would make a day trip up to Cambridge uh yeah or so I'll be traveling uh probably from Edinburgh down to London 20th is good for me so maybe you and me and uh as well okay there we go there'll be three of us yeah okay good stuff anything else I'm going to disappear now we've had our 90 minutes |
| 1:33:57 | if anyone else wants to chat uh amongst yourselves I'll leave it running um otherwise um I'll see you in a couple of weeks I've just Google mapped Panama Crouch and I I didn't realize there was a thing called the river Crouch yep if you're a sailing person you'd know about it because it's quite well known for sailing reactors and things there you go and black water as well God I just it all kind of when you when you zoom out on the um on the map of the UK you kind of think oh that's all just |
| 1:34:32 | attempts um but I don't know exactly but when they put the Thames barrier in they raised all the flood walls around for a long way around because of that so we've not been threatened so far even when we've had surges so at the moment we're probably okay at least for the short term and long term of course is a different story but personally I'm okay because at the moment my house sits at least 45 feet above sea level so I think I'm okay for the time being I just defend off the neighbors |
| 1:35:09 | [Laughter] looks like an amazing part of the world looks like that thing called church or falness is an island yeah but basically all that area uh if both North and South Lake crashes massive um salt marsh areas much of it was originally reclaimed for Farmland right but they put some of it on the other side of the Crouch back to uh wetland in the last um five ten years right so it's very low lying very flat for a long way out to the sea is is Crouch end the uh referring to the river Crouch beginning I don't think so because I think Crouch |
| 1:35:48 | end is somewhere else completely different in North London yes yeah the thing is they have an excellent uh choir and my I play an orchestra the whole thing you have to know about the Crouch is that it's not an estuary this is an inlet because there's no significant river that flows into it at the top end Ah that's interesting oh so it's salt it's all salty yeah and I think geologically speaking it was the course of the Thames at one time back in back in uh a long time ago yeah hundreds of thousands of years ago |
| 1:36:25 | yeah yeah so things you learn on these calls anyway time to go time to go home right bye bye bye and thanks everyone |