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| 00:16 | okay good evening everyone you have a new prime minister oh yes i hardly noticed actually but yes yeah i wonder how long she'll she'll last she has some heavy problems i noticed she didn't seem to mention climate change once in her acceptance speech i don't think she believes in it oh god i don't i don't know i don't think she's not but i think um i get the impression that there's well i mean i i think some of the policies are not very well thought through not very effective and i think so i think there's a there |
| 01:17 | are people that sort of say well we don't like the policies therefore let's just not not believe the the science science is too inconvenient i don't know really but we've we've talked about this haven't we where it's like the tribalism uh trying not to be you know don't be a member of the tribe try and think for yourself jacob reese's hog is quite hostile to anything to do with the climate he just wants to burn more coal and he's attempt to be the minister in charge of the |
| 01:50 | beis who are running climate policy and who now don't even read emails people send them about the comment um they used to say that they acknowledge them and say that they do it within 15 days but they didn't actually ever do it within 15 days but now they don't they don't do that at all you just get sent a list of all the government departments from what they do all the other government departments yeah in case you found that useful i've noticed that our antarctic organization in australia also said that they'd reply within five |
| 02:32 | days and they're not doing so either they haven't got any clue what can be done i i think is the problem and they won't accept anyone else's ideas well okay they think all you have to do is to stop well they've been told by the ipcc that for a very long time but they also have to approve everything the iptc publish and any one government of the whole world can change what ipcc want to say yeah they can [Music] refuse permission to light out yeah yeah god decided stephen take the raw ipc data and write their own summary for policy |
| 03:23 | makers i think there is a yes there is a summary for policy makers but i think the ipcc writes it yeah and they that's where all the the the politics comes in so i'm wondering whether the scientists could take the raw data and write their own scientific summary without the bloody politics and and the veto of the saudis or the americans or whatever right they they could also publish it and say but not say that it's ipcc they could say it's you know somebody else yes ccpi who's the ccpi oh the the ipcc back backwards |
| 04:15 | like yeah it doesn't really matter hi franz how's your work coming hi seth hi ellen hi there my work is uh pretty busy right now sir we've reported we uh got distracted by uh other people's interests expressed from the pre-release papers we sent out and so valuable distractions uh even some people who may even have some money that'd be good and franz your paper it is going on [Laughter] we we've just done a very short summary essentials of a dark we're calling it dara now uh extremely diluted |
| 05:20 | that sounds like the uh idiyakara yeah sort of introduces the chemistry and and um we modified from your um very helpful input term sev about let's see what you think anyway um nanoparticles the effect of nanoparticles on fish so we make sure we've got flocculants in every particle so it'll flock to uh you know to to each other and probably more likely other suspended material so that's what the red organic mud on the windows there from the eruption six seven months ago hi aaron thanks for joining us you're in your |
| 06:12 | boat aren't you yeah are you in wellington no i'm in taoronga and it's been a stormy couple of days tauranga where's that at the moment roughly in new zealand it's um on the east coast um over the kaimais from the hierarchy plains sort of slightly south and east of auckland okay north island yeah yeah are you is your boat rocking around in storms aaron or not uh we're getting a bit of a blow today but um not yesterday but the day before i was being at the moment i'm up a very um narrow little channel uh there's very |
| 07:05 | few places in this harbor where you can anchor that are sheltered with enough giraffe because of the silt um and i only draw a nipple height but there's only a very thin channel here and i got blown up on the ledge over here and had to run around freaking um making sure she flopped over on the right side and [Music] rather than the other way it should have been scary and had to stay up till three in the morning to get her back um tied in this channel so you've had about three hours sleep max oh that was that was the night before |
| 07:48 | yesterday um well i got a little bit more last night but it's been heavily raining and blowing from the south this time rather than the west last night in stores the rain stopped but yeah right well are you um we've got uh eight people i think it's it's always the perfect number you know if it's a smaller number then it's easier to speak really isn't it there's more more time for everyone to speak um we do find people coming tend to join uh later as well but i think we should uh start |
| 08:22 | thinking about what we want to talk about i've made a agenda already here and uh i specifically asked aaron if he would join us this evening um because you know emails that look pretty scary with greenland blowing up and stuff and um and uh franz has had a look at that i'm sorry and a few other people and so you might you might have something to say that as well friends you found some references okay so uh but um what else do we want to talk about um when i have a few other things as well i think yep well it might be interesting to add |
| 09:06 | the discussion about the predicted loss of clouds um with global warming yeah this is something we're up against as well and you may have looked at this too steve yes i don't think i understand it but uh no it's only it's only modeled it's a worrying trend as well i don't have a high opinion of models but maybe they're the only two we've got would have thought that with hotter seas there might be more clouds yes that's that's what was expected but uh let's predict it will go the other way |
| 09:45 | when twenty people to about two thousand parts per million the clouds once we get to how many parts per million john two thousand we've got a bit we're gonna have to go still yeah two thousand parts per million i think uh yeah you have to be a sudden uptick um was that from that video that i posted john yes there's another papers from the lawrence the memorial and the university of washington to talk about it as well yeah in fact it's interesting because they talk about clouds moving towards the arctic more towards the poles the |
| 10:25 | problem is there's more the tropics around the equator clouds [Music] yeah okay so we can i mean we can have a general see if see where that goes about about clouds it might turn into a general discussion because we're talking we're thinking about clouds a lot these days that's been very helpful your stuff stephen has been very helpful to get us onto that yes you look so you might be able to say but i have some feedback on my idea of separating the humidification from the condensation uh i haven't thought about it be honest but |
| 11:07 | somebody some people might have we can we think about it again separating i put out the paper and i i haven't really heard anything back whether people agree disagree or have some better thoughts yeah um from uh from nucleation nuclei yeah nuclei uh okay but that might be just good to just remind us about that get us to think about it again uh and um get us to look at your uh hi sean i was just thinking about contacting you and hugh um i'd quite so are you here for the um duration sean are you going to have to disappear soon |
| 12:00 | um i plan to play at least ideally until 10. okay great so i'd like to talk about we can suggest friends what do you think mention our your nozzle design to uh sean and see if they're interested uh we have uh uh rather another with a with a a not so extremely fine uh hole yeah okay okay friends as long as you're happy to talk about it put it on the agenda yes yes yes and i hope you help me with this translation the translation okay okay i'll try to remember to make sure that it's uh you understand |
| 12:51 | people tell me i speak the queen's english i'm easy to yeah that's the best i can understand it's better to a foreigner um right so nozzle design uh um i hope you don't mind me writing your name sean you don't have to be interested in it um right um can i uh just observe uh that there seems to be a crack in the mantra of emissions alone will solve the problem politically and the opportunity in the united states for alternate views to start to be listened to yeah so as in um cdr now carbon dioxide removal |
| 13:45 | and srm and even srm yeah and i would add the uh magnificent failure of the uh ccs right promoted by the ccs can cut promoters yeah well we've been getting some amazing algae blooms already um i think there's been an awful lot of iron put into the south pacific right and there's some very good novel design going on in greenland and antarctica where um we're still when i clicked this morning i've got 78 percent relative humidity in the stratosphere um over much of the center and west antarctica okay |
| 14:44 | it's been a very very cloudy um summer in the arctic um almost impossible to see anything and a lot of that might be uh stratospheric um with the unknown quantity of water that hong kong put into the not just the stratosphere but the um the exosphere um you know we actually have a hell of a lot of cloud nucleation um particles drifting down from the rock vapor that made it into the exosphere at mach 5. |
| 15:20 | wow um okay right so so live i've got one other point which is i'd like to ask uh steven salter's view on the pakistan floods okay uh okay uh pakistan floods uh stevens we'll see what stephen says okay maybe that's enough then to be getting on with uh well aaron do you mind so i i asked you to join us and thanks for turning up and being here your emails are quite uh sort of alarming um about you know i just want to make sure i understand the basics here because you you've give a lot of information very technical |
| 16:17 | detailed information that i'm not quite qualified to understand really but on a basic level um what i understand is uh you know something happening to the green lamp for example the greenland continent that's that's disturbing the geology um and what could that be so that could be i couldn't think about isostatic rebound which is a lot you know the change the losses um what we know and i can find you a video i've seen before where they do a virtual flyover of the um the bed map uh the bid machine |
| 16:55 | um 3d animation of the bottom of greenland while they're talking about it they mention how the ice cores it's a nasa release they peel back the holocene ice layer the last into glacial uh sorry last glacial period ice and then they show these little scraps around the top of northland of eminence that made it through the last into glacial um and it's not the only place i've seen it mentioned but um they haven't been able to make any sense of it because it's tan tangled um and folded and shattered to hell and interleaved with |
| 17:44 | layers of volcanic ash and mountain shards of mountains um so it blew up quite horribly at this point in the last into glacial um and we've got you know there's always been this evolutionary bottleneck theory that was theorized to be tober but it seems there's been fossils from above and below the toba layer tools and everything it didn't seem that that affected humans much at all in india um and now it seems they're more you know they've also found the same bottleneck in elephants ostriches orangutans |
| 18:24 | chimpanzees and speculating that it's actually happened repeatedly um over the last million years uh and it's a hundred thousand years ago now that they're saying which so let's let me let me summarize then so what you're saying is that the uh towards the end of the immune or at some point during the eemian which is the last interglacial um the yeah basically the final rise the um the point where it went from the sea level of what it is now uh by whatever path that it got there to um supposedly |
| 19:03 | um well it varies in different parts of the world um it was about six meters higher wasn't it uh the amiian well it's a little bit warmer than the holocene that uh you know all around the north island of new zealand there's a raised sandy beach layer at about um 30 meters higher um okay so is that much higher what you're saying is that three times i mean normally they say 10 meters i think for the well 30 feet for um europe okay okay all right and so the the at some point the the uh there was a lot |
| 19:43 | of volcanism i think is what you're saying and it was quite violent it blew a lot of stuff into the air um which [Music] went to other you know thousands of miles away like you're saying in india or something you know it blew up around the world so maybe it went up into the upper atmosphere or something you know um well we were around an example of how um these explosive bath salt eruptions with um you know they can have up to 20 water dissolved as hydroxyl and protons um in the invest hot melts um and that's without taking into account all |
| 20:25 | the fluorine and chlorine and um other you know carbon carbon dioxide methane but ionic versions right they're already broken apart all the energy to break the molecules apart um so you know by comparison you know water is the simple example if you first break your h2 and your o2 into free radicals um then that takes 90 percent of the energy that you get when they recombine um when they're very hot and under very high pressure they don't recombine they remain as a free radical and ionic plasma um so the heat of formation of water |
| 21:13 | from protons and hydroxyls is um or was it fifty four thousand um fifty seven thousand kilojoules per kilogram um yeah 57 megajoules per kilogram that's an awful lot yeah yeah right you're saying there's a chemical energy built up in in substance far beneath the ice then that's what can explode some it's basically an equilibrium reaction where uh you know um at high temperatures water will go will turn into hydrogen and oxygen and that you know in ionic forms uh and backwards and forwards but the higher |
| 22:01 | the pressure is and the temperature are the less likely they are to go towards the um water side of the equation but as soon as the pressure comes off they start to recombine and explosively expand and um yeah it's around the supercritical phase change boundary that um there's sudden and unpredictable um changes of volume and temperature and um i'll send you actually a diagram of a analysis of a volcanic a super volcanic eruption here in new zealand where it shows an initial stage with lots of yes about three little vents with different |
| 22:50 | chemistries erupting and then all the magma chambers suddenly merging into one great big mouthful that caused the massive eruption um called the kidnappers tough that left a welded lignumbrite layer from north of auckland to east cape um across you know at least a metre thick had its extremities um over a thousand kilometers wide but there's lots of examples is that do you have any papers written uh any can you point to any scientists that have other scientists that that have written up a paper about this i mean some of this stuff |
| 23:34 | is familiar you get things yeah you're going sorry yeah well i have sent you some papers that were worth looking at um a few weeks or a month ago now um that i mean if anyone says that they've got a complete understanding of this they're um absolutely walking through the proverbial hole at the other you know but but if you've observed it then i don't see a reason why anyone else shouldn't have observed it and you know it sounds yeah at least the high temperature and pressure um chemistry is um |
| 24:13 | you know very difficult to replicate in the lab yeah and you know what it turns out is the idea that people are raised with an education of a very homogenous mantle um is that it's like a barrel of tar um and very very slow uniformitarian no that's complete hogwash yeah actually we we did look at this we looked at this friends looked at it um what goes on very deep down in the mantle you talk hundreds of kilometers down i mean hard to imagine that those enormous pressures and it does change the chemistry of iron |
| 24:56 | and as it goes around it comes as you say as it comes back up again the pressure eases off and the chemistry changes back again and actually it was i thought it was quite quite amusing because of diamond yeah it's only a few decades since people thought that uh water couldn't get down very far in you know in the continental crusts because um it would simply evaporate from the rising heat right you know but now we know it goes all the way down and um you know there's you know it gets more and more saline with depth |
| 25:31 | and there's um like three times as much water as in all the earth's oceans actually in the um lower mantle right uh the lower sorry low lower lithosphere the crust and they've identified about six different discontinuities in the lower crust and um upper mantle uh that are highly relevant to the um subject of autism and um could you call up the slide of the seismic tomography image is that are you able to put that on screen for us to see of course what is section through north america what i can do is uh i emailed you |
| 26:18 | there's a there's a like a slice through the earth that's through the north american continent one of the ones i emailed you last night yeah i'm just thinking that um this is um this stuff about the enormous pressures that a couple of miles of ice is not the same thing as thousands of thousands of you know sort of kilometers down in the mantle as it's a different sort of well you know you see the problem is with ice it forms as it's building up an ice sheet and a permeable cap and everywhere they've drilled a |
| 26:54 | borehole on a knife sheet they've found that the borehole pressure at the base of the ice sheet is um equal to the overburden weight or within 10 of it so they over pressure the aquifers over huge areas of the crust and continually are pumping water down and fertilizing a bloody great magma plume under them it looks like and it seems that all the super volcano record that i can find in the world which is getting more accurate all the time both the 50 odd ones we've had the last million years in this country |
| 27:32 | and all the major ones around europe and north asia and north america um they correlate very very well with sudden deglaciations yeah it's not that one it's the one of north america i want to actually look at where they're claiming that the pacific plate has subducted as a stagnant slab right under the whole continent all the way to the east coast uh did it come after this one or before or about the same time just before or after it was on that same batch that i sent you here we go uh october it wouldn't be that one would it |
| 28:12 | no no no no it's probably got a yeah it was in the same email that that last night well i might have sent you that one several times yeah it could be a screenshot i think i screenshotted it from a paper i've got the paper right um so no this wasn't running this one i just think i just looked at it wasn't wouldn't be this web page no uh and uh it was i thank you some about 12 hours ago um ah right more than one loss there um so where are we now uh this is eight o'clock so 12 hours ago so we talked |
| 29:02 | about this morning yes i mean for me it's this morning [Music] yeah so uh not one of these was it no it's in that same ah email um that one's relevant too that that one's actually a 2021 paper um where they're suggesting there's a big magma wedge pushing up causing volcanism in greenland and baffin island but um you know what they're not taking on borders it seems that we have spreading oceanic crust right underneath greenland um going all the way from iceland to the north american craton and so |
| 29:44 | mental wedge um causing that volcanism has actually been laid i believe by that by the repeated um yeah water can make it always all the way down to about 500 kilometers where there's something like seven times as much water as all the world's oceans in the discontinuity there right yeah that's the one the kidnappers eruption that's that's differential compression wave velocities at different angles in greenland but show you all the different you know i've been pointing out the movements um relative to the operational |
| 30:26 | navigational charts in these areas um of the landmasses uh particularly in that lower corner by health on and um yeah i don't know what we're looking at there yeah as the um faster velocities are the area uh the direction that the stresses are in no not that one no that's the huge cave system that you with the tunnel you could fit a hole that's what we're going to eat to survive oh now that's an explosion out of the top of the um of greenland um yeah i think that one did we look at that one |
| 31:12 | i'm sure it was in that list must have been before the um big red cannon image of the greenland plume one of these maybe does anyone have any while we're doing this anyway i'm talking about a seismic tomography section through the us and um it's um you know it's got a a there's a textbook thing that they're teaching at universities oh look the pacific plate has subducted all the way to the east coast underneath um america there's a big blue cold uh high velocity puddle that they're claiming is a piece |
| 32:06 | of the pacific plate that's underneath the whole american continent and they've got a couple of sections in that paper um and both of them look you know i've discussed this with um some of the volcanologists and geologists here at victoria university last week and they're like in stitches about the whole idea of a you know five kilometer extremely brittle and fractured piece of pacific plate being able to subduct all the way to the east coast um you don't believe it well we find it highly more plausible |
| 32:44 | that it's actually the um laurentide and cordellero ice sheet um pushing water down differentiating them the mantle there's there's hot orange puddles above it um and so it's probably a result of cold um heavier uh minerals actually puddling um and it's not a stagnant piece of pacific plate at all it's the result of repeated ice sheet um cooling and magma pooling above it right i can't really tell if you're saying that the it's so i spoke briefly to friends this morning he said the warming |
| 33:26 | oceans are dangerous to both greenland and antarctica because some of their land is below sea level and so it uh melt burns it might not be any more actually it comes up a few centimeters a year without isostatic rebound which must be destabilizing the crust well um they they've published papers as far back as 2011 about the um antarctic uh peninsula and parts of northern greenland um uplifting at 1 000 times faster rates than than can be explained by a purely elastic model and completely wrong about the um viscous nature of the crust and |
| 34:14 | they've got this um you know combination of hydraulic and elastic um model that they're playing around with on their super computers seeing if they can make it fit the data right so uh okay so i think so you're saying that okay so there's static rebound is happening much much more in some places than it then yeah and nasa has actually recently admitted that they have their their press release was they have underestimated the amount of ice lost in greenland and antarctica by perhaps as much as eight eighty percent |
| 34:54 | because their grey satellite data wasn't taking into account the speed at which the crust is rebounding as the ice is lost okay right okay yeah could we move on to the next point in the agenda please well i just want to see if france has anything to say about this i i looked for a references which should point to to so2 in the melt water of greenhouse i haven't found anything well if they can't quantify it they won't publish um you know and anything that's getting published is um based on data that's five or ten years |
| 35:40 | out of date you know we've seen major papers come out of greenland where they've talked about um oh there's been a rise in conductivity under store glacier for example and uh you know this is on 2014 data and in 2014 they detected water that was two degrees and we're talking not at the front we're talking um boreholes through a kilometer of ice um back from where it starts to fracture even at that point um and in the middle of that uh core the temperatures they actually put a um the thermistor string down and throws |
| 36:22 | it in and and they found that it was up to minus um 27 or something degrees in the middle of the core but at the bottom and you know there was like a 20 meter thick layer and several boreholes of tempered ice which was a mixture of water and ice but when there were um rainfall events and big mouthwater pulses flowing out under the glacier the water temperature was two degrees hotter than the melting points and you know of a nice water mixture okay i think we'll take this back to emails um all through the media or in the paper as |
| 37:07 | um oh we realized our models were wrong because we weren't taking into account the um kinetic energy from the water going from the top of the ice seat down to the bottom and and then going 100 kilometers out along the bottom of the glacier but now we know that it's not rock these glaciers are sitting on we've got uh from this summer a finding in antarctica that there's two kilometers of saline um aaron sorry i'm going to have to sit asking life we're going to need to move on like this too |
| 37:41 | and we're going to need to move on because we've got a room full of people here with other agenda on the item items on the agenda sorry what you've got is in the center of the ice cap you've got yeah can we take it back to emails um i was hoping to understand this better um aaron i was hoping to understand it better and what i'm understanding is it's isostatic rebound it's something to do with isostatic rebound and we would love to see papers if you're saying that they've realized they've got it wrong |
| 38:10 | you must have read that somewhere and we want to see the papers i think you guys take this about a month ago okay we get a lot of i get a lot of things from you a lot of pictures and stuff references in it to the papers all right in 2011 about the although it says two orders of magnitude it turned out when i found the papers they were pre-orders right do you mind just reminding us what names to look out for so i can do a search and look for the those names because mainly what you send is pictures and i personally i don't know how to uh |
| 38:43 | but but if it's names of how far down the rabbit hole do you want to go with this clive um not too far probably not we just want to know what can be done well what the risks are and that you might be a canary in the coal mine that's that's you know notifying us of some risks that haven't been seen and so we do i'm trying to yeah well i have a group here that's available i'm aware of all those things how bad can this get and um it seems when i calculate how much water um might have been stored |
| 39:19 | under this pressure cap in a hundred thousand years um by calculating half of the area of the ice sheet um at one kilometer thick and dividing that by five to get an approximation for how much um water might be stored in a um we need and he should do that offline exactly completely wasting our time yeah sorry i don't think that makes any sense yeah thanks yeah thanks robert um contact me separately please aaron |
| 40:24 | i think he's gone right uh anyway no more needs to be said about that ever you heard the whole thing so next item on the agenda is um is uh well predicted loss of clouds we talk about clouds yeah yeah yeah this is i mean this is quite concerning if it's correct um i mean it's counterintuitive isn't it but uh the problem sounds like it could be with uh strata cumulus clouds um it's the problem with heat but the on the top of the clouds this is a you know with warming the the clouds are predicted to move higher and to higher |
| 41:09 | latitudes and you know that's this you know stronger turbulence in in the clouds uh causes more mixing with the air at the top and what we need is cooling on top of clouds um because they get thinner if we get too much warmth at the top so it's um it's a you know it's it's still only predicted you know when we get to about i think it's about 100 about about 1200 parts per million co2 but but not nonetheless uh it would be a disaster if it happens i mean this is this is over the cliff stuff i mean we'd have crocodiles in the |
| 41:42 | air in the arctic if this happens and there'll be no life in the equator so we need to produce more clouds just to maintain the status quo the status quo i mean can we do that can we actually do that and with those clouds survive warming conditions just just to stay stable and then we need to produce more clouds not to reflect heat of course but you know it's a it's something i mean it's only models and models you've got to be skeptical of but you know it's uh it's a it's a really complicated |
| 42:13 | area well uh we've as you as many people here know that we've been inspired by uh stephen's uh marine cloud brightening and be thinking about making making clouds um with uh aerosols with hydroscopic aerosols um and uh seeing what we can learn about about um you know you mentioned the dipole stephen um to avoid monsoon at the wrong time and that sort of stuff um john latham made it quite clear we were not trying to make clouds we're trying to make existing clouds a little bit whiter yeah and the first experiment that was |
| 42:55 | ever done about this uh was done where we thought was going to be absolutely perfect ideal conditions which was a place of namibia of south africa on the west side and we had a very big experiment done by discovery channel and they were told that this was the the perfect place in the world to always be sure of getting uh the right sort of cloud and when we got there there wasn't a bloody cloud in the sky and they laid on all sorts of uh flares to produce uh seeding and helicopters to film it and airplanes to |
| 43:33 | measure what was happening and they also i think wanted to make academics look stupid so we were telling them don't don't do the experiment don't fire all these flares and they said we'll do it anyway we've paid for them and it's good television to make academics look stupid so they did set them all off and and about uh three minutes later a magic cloud appeared uh a little bit longer than that and it was probably reflecting about five gigawatts of solar energy and it spread out and slowly slowly faded away but maybe |
| 44:17 | getting bigger rather than getting weaker and i can send a photograph of it as a result to you and it was really very dramatic production of a thing we didn't really expect so i think we can make clouds although i don't want to rely on it i'd much rather make the existing ones brighter i think the air mass that we were using there had probably been over the antarctic for a long time and had been moved up and probably had an incredibly low concentration of condensation nuclei it was in the i think it's the benguela current which |
| 45:00 | is the cold one that's coming up uh from the antarctic uh on the uh the west side of the african continent and certainly if the um you you were getting when when there were clouds it felt jolly cold um even though you were in in africa um so that's that's my contribution are you making clouds you see it's more as a cloud taster than the cloud maker do you yeah that's right now what i'd like to do is to choose when to spray in a place that has just had some rainfall and has now got clear skies |
| 45:43 | and i want to spray there and give time for the spray to spread out before that air mass comes to a place where the humidity is higher and the uh the the clouds start forming and we can then whiten them we we think that the um the initial concentration of spray coming out of a spray vessel is much too high and we're in it with a logarithmic relationship you have to double the concentration for each five percent of cooling that you want so we'd like to have a low dose over a wide area which means a time interval between when you spray and when |
| 46:27 | it actually works we're not in a hurry it doesn't matter if it happens middle of next week like it does the brightening then it should be better to have have it a a low dose over a big area it's nice if we can predict where the wind is going to be blowing so we can choose whereabouts it's aiming and this allows us to knock out things like el nino events or the hot blobs that suddenly appear i think there was one near new zealand a while ago and i don't know if that's still there i don't |
| 46:58 | um so that's about making clouds i don't i hope we don't ever have to worry about this the co2 concentration that was mentioned in the paper um i hope i won't be alive when that happens um and it it it's you know that we have to assume there's going to be some reduction in serious emissions or at least to leveling off yeah stephen what was the uh phenomenon around new zealand that you were mentioning uh some and we were like who was a hot blob a hot lava blob no blob as in you know just a hot lump |
| 47:40 | mobile hot lump oh a hot blob like the big big warm blob coming down from alaska this was a hot blob somewhere near new zealand in what time frame uh a few years ago and if there's a hot blob there's got to be warm air going up and that means there's got to be cold air coming in and that might be the reason that you've got all these droughts in that part of the united states and and to clarify was the hot blob atmospheric or oceanic around new zealand yes it was it was hot water and i think okay degrees warmer than they thought it |
| 48:20 | ought to be yeah that could be related to the dramatic increases of three to four degrees celsius that we've seen in the east australia current which of course descends uh from queensland all the way past tasmania and then as it drifts east uh would affect uh new zealand as well yeah but if they're sporadic uh and we've got mobile spray vessels and we can name them at particular places we have ways in which we could reduce the hot blob i agree that sounds very promising and something we should see of targeting and it really just |
| 49:00 | depends on how well we're able to forecast the wind speed and direction for the next maybe 10 days i think we can do it getting on for that sort of period now they are getting better at it and that that's what prompted my question on the uh the pakistan floods like it seems that's regulating the sea surface temperature would be [Music] really the only lever that we have to influence uh such extreme weather events yeah is is it okay if i ask that now please yeah yeah i mean yeah we're talking about all |
| 49:47 | the same thing honestly i'm a bit traumatized by the last i've got a slide about to show you if you if i can show it to you guys in australia showing china the indian ocean dipole because this it really touches very much on the the matters that i've been raising recently about the relative priority between carbon dioxide removal and solar radiation management because by managing this if by managing the solar radiation say like say for example 10 years ago the ipcc had said to stephen okay yes uh these ideas about marine cloud |
| 50:33 | brightening are really good uh let's uh let's try and uh and regulate the the indian ocean dipole to reduce the likelihood of extreme weather then what would that have done to the likelihood of this massive disaster that we're currently currently seeing in pakistan is is the background but stephen go on uh yes well i got a map a slide here from csiro showing that if you have cooler on the east side of the indian ocean you get less rain in australia and more rain in on the african side you can share the |
| 51:10 | screens you can share your screen if you want um stephen tell me where our share screen is is a green one isn't it yeah and and then you click sort of top left where it says screen that's it yeah have you got that yep thanks that's great do you see this yeah see the mouse moving about as well that's good okay and below here i've i've got a sort of a sasha wave across the indian nation which i'd like to have as being a temperature swing which we oscillate in in a climate model uh we actually |
| 51:43 | drive the the uh the sea surface temperatures to see uh well how how that's affecting the precipitation and if you do it as an alternating signal you can you can use phase sensitive detection to pick up a very small effect uh i didn't understand that stephen sorry um if you know the phase and the frequency of a signal that's buried in noise and you can do a measurement for a long period you can pick up a very small effect okay okay and so what you do is you have a climate model and what you do is vary the sea surface temperatures |
| 52:24 | uh in the way of the little graph you see with the red and blue lines underneath yeah with a period of maybe i don't know 15 years or something but a long time and then you pick up the strength of the effects of the temperatures on the rainfall in africa and australia and hope we get the um the australians and the africans to agree on what would be a nice balance that shows you pictures that were taken on the same day um okay pictures so all right all right so can i give you i'll give you back your screen i'm |
| 53:09 | stopping sharing okay okay that's fine yeah if i try to understand that uh you're saying that you you can change you would sort of you'd um observe these changes of temperature with the signal with it within the noise or you'd actually make the change with by brightening clouds i'm trying to suggest a way in which you could use climate model to see what happens if you did do it yeah okay so you're perturbing a climbing model in particular in frequency and phase and period oh got it now so okay all right it's called phase |
| 53:49 | sensitive detection and anybody does electronics will say oh yes it always works we've done it a long time yeah and i cannot get the climate modelers to believe it um well uh i do believe it because i did electronics i don't know all about that sort of thing and you can do it with pseudo-random sequences of the change and then you can get an everywhere to everywhere transfer function of the of the climate system okay yes and along those lines an additional example of what stephen was showing is the uh la nina phase of the enso |
| 54:28 | oscillation presently resulting in enormous rains in the western pacific and droughts in the eastern pacific in places like california and that has resulted in nearly two meters of rain falling on my home state of queensland australia while california is suffering severe trouts lake powell is drying up and you know i think that means that las vegas is going to be looking for another power source soon because they won't have their hydroelectric for long uh given that rates at which lake powell and lake mead |
| 55:02 | have been descending in altitude i think earlier robert was correct that we like to say here at the climate foundation the ocean is the climate because if you look at the thermal mass and all the rest the ocean temperature anomalies even small ones fraction of a degree end up driving the uh trusted climate enormously to the extent that our colleagues at the woodstock oceanographic institution have demonstrated that in fact sea surface salinity off the western atlantic has uh it's a better predictor of rainfall in |
| 55:35 | the midwestern u.s in the following quarter than even the enso oscillation and so uh it's amazing the extent to which sea surface temperature and salinity are great predictors of the climate and furthermore our ability to re-brighten the planet by re-brightening clouds over the ocean may be one of our most powerful levers to ensure getting back to healthy climate conditions yes short life matters because then you can change it you can send out signals and you can adjust it i think most of the changes will be months or or seasons |
| 56:14 | but it's very good that you can you can change it quickly if you want to agree yeah john you've had your hand up for a while no just just adding to the brian raised the warming of the eastern australian current you know we know about the divisor 95 percent of the giant gulp and other side effects there are half a dozen massive wind farms planned for bass straight which are very close to approval there's there's potentially a source of surplus energy there at times it could be used to produce marine cloud writing and other cloud |
| 56:48 | forming methods why don't why couldn't we do this uh locally to cool the east australian current we could put out a plume with the prevailing westerlies in summer out of the australian current east australian current which would could potentially cool cool the the flow down to tasmania yes that's a great idea the biggest challenge is the following that my understanding of the winds at least for the northern portion of the bass strait are that you have uh well this works in the winter with the westerlies and you you would in fact |
| 57:23 | blow the moisture further east of the east australian current in the summer at least the northern part of the best rate has prevailing easterlies and so in fact you'd be cooling off the area towards south australia we have to double check the winds because it may be more complex than that but i think i'd look for the summer and autumnal easterlies and uh check the seasonality of the winds it works well off the queensland and northern new south wales coasts because the winds there are typically uh from |
| 57:51 | the uh southeast which is blowing onto the reef and onto onto queensland so that's where my sedimizer concept is viewed right i've certainly checked to check the winds 30 40 of the time uh even further south around flinders island and northeast tasmania there are westley's that in summer that can be used that obviously you would only target those times but that would be very effective and blowing it straight out over the over the current there so it could work and we should work the politics for it and suggest it |
| 58:31 | well i think the place to test it is is mussel road wind farm in the northeast corner of tasmania it's right on the coast and it's effectively an offshore wind farm we haven't built any yet so that's effectively one that could be used purely for the for the energy source not not to attach the wind turbines and worry them about that but just purely as a testing location and we've got also these lines you know what we could do is uh reach out to the wind turbine manufacturers and request a modification of the uh architecture so |
| 59:03 | that when the wind is curtailed which it may be from time to time that we would have that energy available for uh creation of uh seawater aerosols yeah so on that note um i've just had a message from sean's got five minutes and um we'd love him to um hear about the nozzle uh that franz is suggesting so this would be to make the adara uh aerosol from seawater um it's uh your friends you're muted at the moment you have to press on mu it's uh concentric sort of speed it's it's uh around uh |
| 59:48 | two two discs and the and the rotating space a circle yeah a cliff yeah so it's uh they're like rotating counter rotating grids is it that yes i i tried to uh the centrifugal system centrifugal force is driving out the the water through the nozzles yeah so critical millimeter millimeter or smaller a little bit smaller nozzles not so extremely fine nozzles as to make no problems with plugging yeah and in a counter the direction rotates a plate |
| 1:00:54 | kind of like like this sort of going around like that isn't it it's got this and then another one on the inside going the other way which divides the uh the line which coming out of the nozzles into droplets yeah so the jet there's you have a jet coming from the nozzle yeah it's about a millimeter and it's a very rapidly spinning uh sort of discounted direction yeah that's got these blades on it and then another disc on the other just outside is spinning the other way around so i think steven |
| 1:01:29 | said something about this as well well a while ago that the not that the uh the jet gets whacked in one direction and so it smashes into into droplets and then as soon as it goes out a little bit further there's another blade coming in the opposite direction the other way so it smashes them into even more this is on the on the droplets and by the velocity difference of both rotating objects you can control the droplet diameter yeah does that make sense are you there sean did you hear all that i mean i did hear it i'm not sure |
| 1:02:13 | um what you mean by control i mean i think stephen would say the the fancy the larger the difference in the in the uh rotating lightly velocity yeah uh droplets apart yeah the relative velocity depends the droplet's arm is depends on the relative velocity of of the two rotating systems there was a some papers i've seen where you just had water dripping onto a disc that was spinning it was a disc with a sharp knife edge and the water would be centrifuged out to the rim and there'd be centrifugal force trying to throw it out in surface |
| 1:03:05 | tension trying to retain it and this made very very nice uh narrow dispersed drops but uh if you look they gave an equation for the speed and the drop size and the faster it went the smaller the drops were and they were very nice uniform however to apply that with just one single disc and to get this size of drops that john latham wanted you had incredibly high centrifugal forces on the material disc there wasn't really any any material that could stand up to that it worked brilliantly if you wanted to make a 30 |
| 1:03:43 | micron diameter uh drop but if you went below one micron then you needed unobtainium to make the discs and also it had very high drag from the uh the air drag around the disk now if you're introducing another material that's spinning in the other direction what we need to know is what the size of the drops are and what the spread of them is and how much the air drag is and if those numbers come out right then it sounds very interesting the other one that's a little bit similar to this is to have uh high pressure air going |
| 1:04:26 | into water very very high pressure and then to have two jets pointing at each other so that you have these the impact speed is double the speed of one of one jet and i drew this but i never was brave enough to make one and i fear it would give a very wide spread of drop size and at the moment i believe that having a narrow spread of drop size is really important because it means that they all nucleate or none of them nucleate together you get an a a narrow spread of drop sizes and what we do not want is to have some big drops |
| 1:05:06 | that nucleate before the little ones and grab all the water vapor and the little ones then have to have a higher humidity and they can't get it because they're just left out in the dry so that's my pleasant thinking about drops i don't know what the right size is but i i'm quite sure we want a narrow spread of sizes yeah and that's just going back to the color curves right what do you think sean i think you said you've got to leave about now so yeah i do unfortunately yeah but i i'm |
| 1:05:37 | working on the principle that stephen has laid out which is you know can we establish a method by which there is a a relatively narrow range of uh droplets um you know on the basis that if you have these you know some big ones they can basically end up stealing yeah and uh and then also if you have too many really small ones actually they do the job of stealing as well but they don't actually then end up forming droplets and you end up getting really scattering so hence there's this goldilocks zone as i think steepness if |
| 1:06:13 | if there's enough of them they can actually take quite a lot of water out in the arctic in the winter no i know i know but you're right so there are games to be had so you might want to therefore have this let's say narrow range you might want to have really really small ones uh frankly in the arctic winter or really big ones in the arctic winter and just get the damn stuff to precipitate out i mean you know but you this goldilocks zone yeah is the arctic summer game yeah france wants to speak i i only want to say uh |
| 1:06:55 | the droplets uh we want to make the from sea water for instance as a as a part of our system shouldn't don't need it to be below one micrometer because they they will dry and the 3.5 water assault in them would stay and make the uh nucle for the uh clouds right but and depends on the falling speed if you have them too big they'll fall faster there's a stokes equation strokes coming up uh stokes doesn't really work if the mean the size is approaching the mean free path and there's a correction by a chap |
| 1:07:51 | called cunningham but you we can work out how fast i know it's 20 microns a second for 0.8 of a micron yeah i mean i certainly i'd heard the the range france of you know a micron being at the the very upper end of where you might want to play but we don't really know and i've heard others saying or you might want to get down to 500 in other words half a micron 500 nanometer water droplet and stephen you know we'll say actually you know have a go at 800 nanometer water droplet in order to get a dry-ish |
| 1:08:27 | crystal dry crystal or what a quarter of that something like that yeah i'm not i i would accept 500 nanometers instead of eight you know if there's it needs quite a lot of higher extra pressure and that means that you've got more stress in the yeah steven i really agree you know yeah i completely agree so anyway the one micron figure is certainly on the larger end of the stuff that i've heard other scientists suggesting france so submicron and monodisperse yeah exactly yeah so those are the principles behind which we are trying to |
| 1:09:07 | look at at the moment i need to run okay very very good to see you all yeah you too thank you and see you thank you sooner and uh franz do you happen to recall the name of the counter rotating cylinders or steven uh what what is the name of the technology that was uh mentioned regarding the two cylinders that are rotating in opposite directions i i i don't know if it is existing and now we uh uh we thought we could make by the system uh the droplets we certainly weren't very good yeah because we if we use this uh |
| 1:09:50 | rotating uh this principle we can uh pump the water with this principle in yeah what we need from are there any papers that discuss the uh size of the monodisperse size versus velocity where is that relationship described possibly uh possibly uh stephen sort of knows more about this i'll i'll try and find the reference to this it was done by someone at harwell and they used it for making uh powders that were the same size of powders and they had a solution that dried um okay and there's a there's an equation in it which tells |
| 1:10:34 | you how fast and what size right you may find some problem with the when the blades hit the water at that speed the blades may well degrade fairly quickly the impact velocity for stainless steel is 110 meters a second well i've done some experiments on this and it's particularly bad if you've had anything that's been bent and curved this opens up little cracks but it's a very sharp increase at 110 meters per second for water drop hitting a crack and the the pressure going down to the root of the crack and brightening the crack |
| 1:11:18 | oh seeing 110 as the failure point of steel as opposed to the critical required size for droplets of one micron uh i'd have to look that up again but okay great 30 microns and there's a big big gap and i had to give give that one up and maybe we can it coats the uh the blades with silicon uh nitrite or carbide i agree yeah we should investigate that further and any references you mentioned the howell power powder coatings and uh we'd love to follow up with you on that stephen it does sound friends as though this |
| 1:11:59 | this what your your spinning disc would make uh droplets of very different sizes they wouldn't be the same size we should we should uh try try to make yeah i think it could be a strong function of the velocity and i wouldn't be surprised if uh you could get mono dispersed droplet sizes from a single velocity okay yes yes you can okay that's great i don't know what you think stephen if i could just just say this very quickly we're i think talking about adding things to sea water adding a little bit of acid |
| 1:12:39 | um and an iron nitrate so um make so they would be rather more hygroscopic i mean of course when it dries out it's salt particles hydroscopic so it's more hygroscopic does that make any difference to the the necessity of to to have them the same size do you think uh i think it was just surface tension uh fighting against central centrifugal force and and the when the um it was that that set the drop size i mean in terms of you've got you've got you're all these um droplets in the air you've nebulized you've got |
| 1:13:16 | us you've made a sort of you made your own sort of mist in the air um does it how does that affect whether it's going to make a cloud or not we want to make clouds um i mean first of all you might not like the idea of making clouds i think you need to look at the volume of water drops in the cloud compared with the volume of the nuclei that we want to trigger nucleation with and i think the the the the the cloud drop is up to 28 microns uh if it gets bigger than that then it'll start falling fast enough to make |
| 1:13:53 | rain so somewhere between uh 10 and 28 microns will be the size of drops in clouds is enormously much more than the nucleation size that we want to have i've just clicked in uh on the web and there's atomization characters because of spinning disks in direct droplet mode so there's the stuff on the web and i've got graphs here of drop size and microns and the spread of them and it's going at a thousand rpm a diameter 40 millimeters and the drops are a thousand thirteen hundred sorry twelve hundred to fourteen hundred |
| 1:14:33 | microns anyway there's lots on the web is this is this twelve hundred microns yeah yeah droplets okay on that experiment they were doing i'm sure you'll be able to get a bit smaller than that if you have a a faster disk right right okay thanks everyone i'm just looking thinking about the time again um so um well we've done we've talked quite quite a bit of this what should we do next any suggestions how about your uh thing here separating humidity is closely related isn't it separating humidity |
| 1:15:12 | we've got time to talk about grant's thing yeah if you did you did jump off the point about clouds i had one quick question for uh for steven and and perhaps others which was whether regulating the indian ocean dipole with marine cloud brightening could uh mitigate the extremity of monsoons i'm sure that it would and there's quite a lot of literature about the east-west uh temperature gradient and uh i i think one of the the people who did a lot of work on this is julia uh who's slingo retired from the hadley center recently |
| 1:15:55 | and she i think she did some of her very first work on these um the the uh one of the very early people working on the monsoon problem uh back in the beginning of the 20th century is my grandfather and he he was the second director of the indian meteorological research group and uh he was trying to find out to understand the way the winds moved over over india the it's a problem of of course deep concern and i would suggest if you want to uh to um talk about this there's a chap called uh god my mind's rotting uh i will try and |
| 1:16:45 | dig out in the chat um if it comes to you please um yeah um sorry name's gone it'll come in about five minutes time um as long as it comes back just stick it in the chat i'll just speak up that's fine yeah okay anything else on that subject before we move on um okay so this because this is a meeting for everybody and i i just try to moderate but it's for everyone okay so sev then please okay um you may recall that my setomizer conceptual technology is designed to create new cloud where there is none |
| 1:17:25 | as well as to thicken existing cloud and but it also by the way because it it is designed to humidify the air it uses the warm surface water to do that humidification by spraying that up and therefore it would also reduce the temperature surface temperature of the water plus the cloud effect of shading it so yes it would also help with the mitigating the effect of of flooding rains in pakistan and eastern australia and could also be designed to actually make new precipitation blowing onto the state of california so you can use it for all those |
| 1:18:22 | different purposes but the last little paper which i i sent to this group um was talking about the need to separate out the humidification aspect from the nucleation aspect if you humidify well first of all uh condensation nuclear i don't do anything in air which is not supersaturated with water so if you can super if you can saturate or nearly saturate the the air using droplets of any size which then fall back into the sea and then that humidified air is allowed to rise through daytime turbulence to cool cloud making height |
| 1:19:18 | then you want to insert into it those ccms which the the highest sprays and the sublimation of ferric chloride will produce using the setomizers and that way i think you can get the best of both worlds you can get extra humidity and the right form of cloud forming at at the right height and then down far down wind you will be able to estimate when that will fall as precipitation and change the size of the nuclei so that you get precipitation where you want it and you get no precipitation also where you want it so i i just wanted to have a bit of uh |
| 1:20:12 | i love the sound of that and whether people like this idea of separating out humidification from uh cloud nuclei do you have any numbers for the masses of water that you're involved the um the current bt um spiral air sprays are producing droplets of a a few microns in size but they are only using pressures of about six six or seven atmospheres and they are using basically air pressure compressed air air jets to break up a spray of water a spiral spray of water inside a little container before it goes out the nozzle and i'm saying that |
| 1:21:10 | if you increase the uh the the the spray rate is about um uh a maximum of of of uh seven liters per minute i think out of the sprays so it's quite a large spray it's the the spray hole is maybe close to a centimeter in diameter so there's not that much limitation and if you were to increase the pressure of the water going in by about tenfold increase the pressure of the air going in by maybe even more than that so you talking about scores or scores of of atmospheric pressure um you can basically the higher the pressure you |
| 1:22:03 | make the air the smaller the droplets it's it's the the air which breaks up the the water droplets and if in addition you pressurize air into the into the water before you put it into the mixing chamber you will then get an effervescence effect which will also break up the whatever size of droplets are coming out and so i'm saying that with those three effects you can get a large volume of spray you can get the the average water size droplet down to what you want and if necessary you can then winnow out the larger droplets using the |
| 1:22:56 | baffles which i i talked about in in my setomizer so you can end up with just the the right size of droplets which you want okay that's about it i think i'm asking how much what water is there in the cloud what's the weight of water in a cloud because we're talking about getting on and approaching that amount aren't we it's up to one percent by volume hmm yeah i can remember a third of a centimeter cubed in a cubic meter of air but that's a the whole cloud's got an awful lot of mass of water in it |
| 1:23:33 | it does but with these with these um high volume sprays that's just one spray you you probably have thousands of them on on a single big wind turbine um you can get a delivery of water of humidifying water into the air very easily and then you can have a much smaller volume going out at the top and with your your ferric chloride aerosols to do the actual nucleation when those two streams mix higher up if if if this is pumping water and to make it uh make the air humid so to make a cloud and the cloud then travels a few hundred |
| 1:24:24 | miles and then dumps its water you know in las vegas or you know somewhere where you want it to be wouldn't it be easier just to make a pipe and pump the water up the hill and pump it a couple hundred miles is it because it seems that that's or am i missing something here sev i think you're missing it um you're we're trying to get um humidified water pure water into the air and then that humid air it's still not saturated but it's it's it's maybe got 80 90 percent water content yeah when it goes up |
| 1:25:02 | higher it becomes saturated and then a little bit super saturated and when it gets to that super saturation that's when you hit it with the cloud condensation nucleus so the point to my cloud can i share a screen again i'd like to show you a picture yeah uh yeah can you see that no i've got to hit something else you have to share yeah i think you didn't click you have to share something i've seen a picture for of stephen's cloud which he made which is nice no this is a different thing i've hit it i've hit the green button |
| 1:25:41 | but i also have to share a screen that's right you have to say what that's it's coming up have you got that yep uh you can see this is a thing that looks like an egg beater durian wind turbine yeah and if you have this spinning and these things start off below the surface of the water uh then once they're going they will be in the water out along these top thinking you can squirt it out through the trailing edge of the this wind turbine so you've now got a pump with no pistons and no cylinders and no |
| 1:26:20 | machine parts that's lifting drops of water and squirting them out the the it needs to have a rather careful control of the slit that they're coming out of you want a slit that is 500 meters long and 30 microns wide and adjustable and that looks as if it's rather difficult but you can do that by having a a coil around spring where the coils are touching and then you stretch it slightly and the gaps between the springs open up yeah these would do uh between one and three cubic meters a second it depends on how much water |
| 1:26:59 | you want and how high but the the the efficiency of this as a pump is really very high uh it it's it's and there's no no moving parts so that's a way to get lots of extra humidity into the air and the plan when i was working on this was to have the drops sized so that they would evaporate before they reached land so the salt would fall back in the sea and the humidified air would reach land and you could uh with a few uh until 20 or 30 000 of them you could get quite a lot of extra rain in california |
| 1:27:37 | so you'd have the brine falling back into the sea rather than the that's right the dry particles yeah and i could say same idea yeah i couldn't get anybody in this and i've given it up but i've got a couple of papers about this one about the how this changes to the air temperature but look behind sounds like you and seb should team up then stephen there we are sorry that's what you want to say that's uh and it was john john nathan heard about that and phoned me up and said could i make the stuff for his things and i said |
| 1:28:11 | oh yeah no problem with music that was not totally true but it didn't happen the pacific ocean is um when one looks at it at most times is more cloud free than most oceans and it's also the biggest so it is it is really important to be able to make cloud where there is none if we can do that in the pacific that's giving us a a whole lot greater albedo for the for the whole world yeah what gives us hope is uh ships we know that ships made tracks and that sulfuric acid is a main uh ccn colonization nuclear nuclei |
| 1:28:57 | and uh and that's just acid and um and so if you can make something that's uh acidic then it should make clouds i think that's pretty much but salty is pretty good too and and that's not a not a pollutant yeah i think salt is the second best the best thing is hydrogen peroxide yeah and i i how does the proximal so i don't want to mess around with hydrogen peroxide no yeah in terms of making abilities make clouds because it's hydroscopic yeah so okay we've just got five minutes left um grant uh is it i think that's um yeah |
| 1:29:40 | i've got to share my screen now um stephen so it's going to take yours off um um yes so anything else it doesn't have to be me that decides but basically this is your suggestion grant yeah it's a combination of a couple of things one was your comment uh clive of the uh how the germans are burning lignite again in the absence of sun enough sun and wind power to turn to renewables we're seeing a similar thing here in california where our push free renewables has just been modified by the legislature passing a bill that calls |
| 1:30:28 | for the diablo canyon nuclear plant to remain in service for another three years and that's an admission that the renewables aren't coming on fast enough you combine that with the other news that our governor wants to prevent the sale of new fossil fueled cars from 2035 and you're getting a little bit of mixed message here it doesn't seem that emission reduction is going to work out i combine that with another published report from a group that assessed the progress made on carbon capture and sequestration |
| 1:31:21 | that has been promoted by the fossil fuel industry and calling them out for what a pathetic performance they have had a few of the plants where it has been in operation have been able to achieve 50 the biggest plants are those where they have had to strip uh carbon dioxide from methane uh so that there's a saleable product at the end of it the uh big project that exxon was promoting at the barrie power plant in alabama has been noticeable by no news of its progress and that's because most of them have closed down |
| 1:32:09 | because there is none yeah and there's a crack happening here combine this with the fact that the white house scientific group has called for public input relating to alternate methods of climate mediation or climate hazard reduction this is the under the aegis of john kerry it says people are starting to question this you add that to the united nations group that are going to have to report on the need for things other than uh emissions reduction there is an opportunity for improved communication here i think still the |
| 1:33:04 | biggest thing that we face is the challenge to get planetary cooling acknowledged as a reality and a necessity whereas robert is so eloquently described so many times so it i'm just looking here and saying i think there is a change in listening that we need to make the best opportunity of my own efforts in this i am making a submission to john kerry's group about the need to engage the fossil fuel industry in the solution rather than having them be the focus of everybody's apparent desire to put them out of |
| 1:33:55 | business and have them disappear it's not going to work thank you thank you grant yeah brian please yes well uh first of all i can report that the ira i think it's the inflation reduction act uh has within it a 50 tax credit for uh carbon capture and sequestration so we this is a new day in that i'm aware of a number of projects and a number of companies that are able to utilize this 50 tax credit towards new carbon capture and sequestration equipment so we may see a transformational change over and above |
| 1:34:35 | what we've seen with 45q the other thing i'd like to second grants a suggestion to facilitate communication and the first step i think we should consider is really reframing what we're doing towards re-brightening the planet and that's true physically with albedo increase and it's true socially in terms of brightening the governance if you will of our nations to actually address holistic responses to uh what are gonna actually solve the problem so uh re-brightening the planet needs to be done physically and |
| 1:35:09 | politically and i look forward to reframing this conversation in such positive terms that can be much more palatable within the un fccc and within other governance bodies got it i think everything i want to say just briefly is um i read an essay just the last couple days that there is there is a broken implicit contract with the unf triple c and the united nations and that is the contract or the promise was that the scientists would go and deter you know identify what uh what the problem was how big the problem was and |
| 1:35:45 | how quickly we needed to act we've been doing that for a third of a century and the broken promise is that action would occur and now that action is not occurring it's a broken political promise and what we have to do is really build the grassroots efforts to insist on having governance that will fulfill the promise of action now that we know what we have to do and how quickly we have to do it absolutely i think the key thing is now that we know what what what we have to do we thought they thought they knew they |
| 1:36:19 | thought it was reduce emissions um okay thank you brian uh john please i'll just just to finish climbing i'm reminded of leonard cohen there's a crack in everything that's how the light gets in it's uh that's what it's about isn't it there's always a practice somewhere definitely yeah nice nice note to end on john he's he's a singer i think is that right your favorite yes before you end uh the name of the indian geologist is govinda swami balor and uh he he usually uses his f his bella name |
| 1:36:58 | and if you put bella and precipitation indian continent you'll get lots of stuff b-a-l-a that rings a bell sure we've seen them get govinda smart swami govinda swami but he doesn't use that much is he's playing he signs emails as well right good right thanks everyone um that's it again for two weeks any last messages from anyone uh okay then well thank you and uh look forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks we'll keep the emails going and i'll send that recording yeah stephen would love to follow up on the |
| 1:37:39 | spinning disks yeah very well uh yeah we we uh but we'll do that we'll uh we'll see where that goes thank you very much brian excellent thank you see you soon folks bye bye hi everyone sorry i missed most of it i think you were there for most of it wrong it's recorded so it should be uh good yeah yeah yeah thank you thank you yeah friends do you want to talk to me at all friends you're muted right now franzia i i have a question uh meeting with uh bit tomorrow yeah tomorrow it's 8 00 am i have an invitation |
| 1:38:30 | maybe not but i'll send i'll send you one i'll send you the link it's the usual link but i'll send it to you it's mine thank you the usual one okay okay special one no it's nothing special so goodbye see you tomorrow morning friends yeah okay |