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| 00:00 | victoria my state has been unaffected yeah but queensland and uh and new south wales have been really copying it copying it yeah copying it rich got it yeah yeah uh really underwater weren't they yep and they'll be next will be fires yes but if steven and i can get our stuff together we may be able to stop the uh so much um heavy storms occurring because we'll call the sea surface [Music] what's that uh what do you have in mind for that sev well stephen's uh flickers oh they're good sorry that's right the |
| 00:44 | marine club writing yeah yes good evening manager well good morning for you i guess is it you're a mute manager and john john nissen um i wonder because there's a certain conversation that's a certain topic that comes up every time um you know quite properly i think that you're you've you've been you you and i i see it mentioned in the other groups pretty much every time um this uh srm bit in the summer months over the arctic uh and i just saw something from you in the lower in the lower stratosphere |
| 01:29 | but it kind of goes round and round uh in our group um with with franz saying and friends will be here in a moment i'm sure um about the effect on the atmosphere is is that it'd be quite nice if that was kind of if there was some conclusion that either either agree to disagree or but but it just keeps going around which is a bit of a i'm not saying it's a waste of time but it's it should go somewhere i feel i thought i thought there was i thought there was some resolution there was a lot of discussion |
| 02:01 | there has been a resolution okay well that'd be nice to just announce the resolution then i think and just say look this is now resolved i think i think it's all right yeah that's okay okay and so prague and various others are are in the process of sort of joining with david keith then are you just to say to recommend that this should be done as soon as possible i'm i'm concerned that it lasts for so long and that you can't reverse it and stop it if you get if you guess the wrong amount of treatment right |
| 02:35 | and uh i think the thing that you pray we'll get into the same fairly soon maybe there'll be a bit of an uneven concentration but it will get everywhere it's like pouring cream in your coffee and stirring right okay the falling velocity is so small compared to the turbulence velocity is that it won't go in the in all directions as well as the one that you're hoping it's going to go into right presumably it comes out when it gets rained out i mean we don't want to get into this quite now i don't think |
| 03:13 | it's high above the rain nearly all of it's above the rain okay so it doesn't get rained out it doesn't get very dark it's just mixed mixed everywhere right it depends uh the lifetime depends on this uh thing known as the brewer dobson circulation uh which happens in the stratosphere so air enters at the tropics and leaves at the pole uh low latitudes and it goes back around the tropics again uh the uh low latitudes leave at high latitudes um [Music] uh or near near the pole so there's a general |
| 03:58 | northward uh movement but the the air is kind of falling out of the stratosphere back into the troposphere all the time i just don't believe this air is continuing to go around every every molecule that moves north another molecule has got to move so it's not that the circulation is just one one direction in the stratosphere and then the the air returns gradually through the troposphere yeah so what you what's what the area is containing will also go round so you put some a minute amount of minute concentration of so2 |
| 04:43 | into the stratosphere it will eventually end up in the troposphere where it will do a bit of a tiny bit of cloud brightening and and rain out very quickly and that's an end of it i believe in the conservation of air and i believe that the rain is really quite low down so the the amount that gets washed out will really be people talk about two or three years uh you know pinatubo lasted the so2 lasted two or three years but that's low latitude injection and in the southern hemisphere uh summer uh that the robson dobson circulation |
| 05:30 | would have taken the so2 southwards rather than northwards and that's why you get so2 [Music] all over over the world you need to do the the the numbers on the velocity and the the mean velocity is very much lower than the turbulence velocity so if you've got turbulence it's going in all directions with a very slow drift in the brewing gobston direction well i think that velocity is possibly a much greater eastwards and that is northwards in the northern hemisphere and eastwards and south was in the tunnel |
| 06:14 | that's exactly one i think it's very there's very little turbulence because that's why it's called the stratosphere because it's basically because it's extremely satisfying look at the jet stream it's going to go through the jet stream no the jet stream is far below the stratosphere sorry the the stuff that you spray will be going through the jet stream some of it missed the jet stream but if there's a death stream the jet stream is far below the stratosphere the i i don't believe you |
| 06:53 | well look at the diagram so i i just i think there's a complete breakdown here i i did set do some i think i sent you some calculations about the the the magnitude of the brewer dobson and i think you just ignored it the the fact is that you've got a very long phase lag and you've got very slow response and you've got to get it right and if you don't get it right you're stuck with it for a long time well i'm i'm working with uh doug mcmartin on the modeling and also talking to david keith and and |
| 07:31 | trying to find out you know uh whether my assumptions are correct and that would work and uh so far i haven't had any objections but my latest email was this afternoon so i can't expect an answer from everybody yet do you have dedicated meetings john that perhaps you could invite stephen to so you could sort of thrash it all out not yet but i'm still trying to get to to uh make sure that the experts agree uh or on it i don't want to go ahead and be things that don't work but um or have unacceptable risks |
| 08:19 | and the the the most the greatest risk i think is is uh is to the ozone hole might enlarge um but i've been reassured that that by injecting at high latitude uh lower fairly low in the stratosphere the um most of the so2 will uh have um dropped out and i mean not literally dropped because it's loaded it's load out um with the air flowed down and been rained out then you're saying no no not rained out it just just basically flows out flows out into the upper troposphere then yeah exactly yeah but but then doesn't it get |
| 09:12 | uh taken around in the jet stream but then then then it's no different from so2 in in the droplets here which is which is uh uh also has really affected but it only lasts for a short time because of getting washed down right don't you think stephen is i mean i don't want to try and force any issues i'm just really suggesting that stevens sounds as though he knows a lot a lot about the atmosphere as well especially from a marine cloud brightening work that isn't he somebody that you could include |
| 09:50 | in your discussions with i did ask jordan how the cfcs get up to the ozone layer they were they're released down in the the everybody's fridges and they they if they can get damaged by ozone they've got to get up to where the ozone is in the so how does it harden it they enter the uh the uh stratosphere and at low latitude which enables them to get wafted up right up to the pole uh after quite a long time but all i'm suggesting is that everything gets everywhere certainly in the same hemisphere it takes longer to |
| 10:38 | get into the other hemisphere but everything gets everywhere and this is it it doesn't it inject north uh at a uh say 50 north all that so2 will be wafting northwards and most of it emerges that it will out by the time it gets well all of it by the time it gets to the pole i'll try and dig up the numbers that i sent you so what i expect is that you get a the easterly component of the velocity will waft the so2 fairly smoothly round around the along it lines the longitude sorry along along the uh lines of latitude or slightly |
| 11:37 | northward of east um so you'll get a so the winds will tend to even out the distribution as it slowly moves northward even out the distribution is exactly what i think is going to happen it's going to get everywhere well it gets everywhere where you want it which is uh which is at high latitudes cooling the stuff underneath yeah yeah i i agree that some of it if you get it right we'll be where we want it the trouble is if you get it wrong it will be where we don't want it and uh well the question is what what |
| 12:22 | would be wrong um what we want is we're aiming for a general very general cooling of the arctic we don't want it to to uh be be lumpy because if it if it's lumpy then it could uh all the particular uh uh weather systems and produce an extreme uh uh weather event which for which one would get castigated possibly or what you might think is another volcanic eruption and now you've overcooled well that would be a blessing wouldn't it no it wouldn't it's not another thing if we could if we could arrange |
| 13:02 | further for a volcano to go off um degrees north or north of that that might solve the problem for us and we could stop well if you've solved the problem by spraying from airplanes and then you get another pregnancy or a cracker tour you've got a replication of 1815 which is pretty bad well at least we might you can't you can't she got re-frozen the arctic which is what we really want to do no no quite seriously our main problem is not not being able to do enough but you might have used the wrong risk |
| 13:45 | the real danger is that we can't produce enough cooling with so2 it's not there's no danger of overshoot because it's it enables putting up thousands of tons of ssa2 [Music] i don't think we're going to get anywhere on this uh the the the question is what control do you have and the answer is once it's up very little you only need we don't need to control it we just want a blanket you get like it can be you can get uh the wrong effect if you overdo it we don't know how much you want to do it |
| 14:42 | and if you get it wrong and the amount that you might need will not be the same all the time and if there has just been another volcanic eruption you risk overdoing it you can't stop it it's there for for two years it isn't that it's only there for a couple of months that's one that's that's why we're doing it at 50 degrees north or north of that um because the lifetime is quite short it's a few months or two two or three months you can adjust that time by the height of injection |
| 15:26 | so if you eject a bit higher in the stratosphere it will take a bit longer the falling velocity of this stuff is maybe 20 microns a second and we got meters per second of turbulent random velocities so you said you're thinking about the where i will send you the numbers that i sent you about a year ago about um about the velocity and the thing is that you seem to think it's all going in one direction in fact it's all spreading the turbulence velocities are far higher than the falling velocities and therefore |
| 16:18 | it goes in all directions not the one that you thought it was going in well so long as there's a general movement northward and there's a spreading uh uh uh the um kind of uh east in the eastward uh direction uh as well uh then it doesn't matter if there's turbulence but we're talking about the direction it's moving in and i'm saying that the turbulence moves it uh in all directions and some of it will be very will be going in the opposite direction from the one that you thought was going to go in |
| 16:58 | the the point about the dobson circulation is that it's inexorable so so so so uh air that is injected in the uh at the low latitude will finish up very much later in time at a high latitude about things uh injected at a high latitude will fall out quite quickly that's that's what the brio dobson circulation is all about there's a good model for this when you have turbulence in all directions that's called eddy diffusion and you can use um the diffusion equation with suitable constants to model any diffusion and |
| 17:44 | that can be done you know with the introduction of a bias as well and uh that can produce some good quantitative results well like i can i can send your calculations to david keats and uh doug mcmartin and uh other people are doing that peter added and see if they can see if there's a problem now i think that'll be helpful john yeah john what what height are you talking about just of interest meters or kilometers it's it's 12 kilometers something like that it's it varies depending on the latitude so |
| 18:30 | latitude it's much lower and you can use conventional so you can see that easily on windy at 13.5 kilometers down to all the way through and see the amount of circulation that's occurring so it's it's it's all visible to anybody who wants to look at it yeah there are probably things you can look at on on one of these uh global um yeah windy windy. |
| 19:02 | com look at the window.com yeah and uh aiming are you aiming for uh upper troposphere or lower stratosphere uh and that was stresses yeah okay that could be feasible in the arctic but in the lower latitudes the tropopause is a bit higher perhaps yeah well i have talked about designing special aircraft to go very high in the in the low latitudes um but at the higher latitudes you don't need to do that that was one of the points that peter urban made in his lecture a few weeks ago very well the 17th of february to be precise looked it |
| 19:47 | up today right okay thank you everyone for that uh so uh you're going to send us the calculate your calculations to uh john then uh stephen yes and i'll take them to everybody okay thank you well i'll pass some more months to say because i i said to uh david keith today he was offering help on specific questions so i can send it i said i'd follow up with some technical ones so that would be one of them great okay and just to see if i've understood you're saying stephen that um the you might you might get too much cooling |
| 20:31 | especially if another volcano goes off but even if you didn't get too much cooling it wouldn't be focused enough on on the arctic but it would tend to spread everywhere else i don't mind where it does it the trouble is you've got to get it right it's like um casting the die and then being stuck with it if you get it wrong you're you're stuck with a mistake for a long period now we can argue whether it's six months or two years but it's certainly a long time the thing that is very attractive about |
| 21:07 | marine collaborating is it's very short life which means that you've got a a high frequency response control system with a low phase leg and if you don't know how to do it and you make a mistake it's forgot it's forgiven and forgotten in a few days yeah this is this is a very very nice thing we can learn how to drive it even if we don't know now and if we get it wrong we can change very quickly right i think the issue with marine clan brighton is it's not ready to go yet and people are extremely worried and want to |
| 21:40 | take action very urgently on the in the arctic with the iceberg i've i've got the design specifications ready to give out to subcontractors uh there's very little more that i can do at this stage there's a lot of calculations and there's a lot of drawings and uh people are not interested in them that there's you know there's a the group so just okay but we'll maybe come back to the um stratfor garrison in just a minute there's a group in washington washington university of washington university of |
| 22:13 | washington yeah and they've they're they're doing a great deal they have a very strong focus on marine cloud brightening are you collaborating with them at all stephen uh they have sent me information rob wood sent me some very useful information about satellite imaging of cloud patterns and i found that very useful they are trying to use a a size of aerosol which i think is too small uh and but you know i'm not i don't know enough about uh aerosol uh sizes but it doesn't seem to gel with what i understand about the cola |
| 22:54 | nucleation effect my my drops would nucleate before their one because because they're a bit bigger so there's a there's a question there i don't think they've done anything at all about the engineering hardware i think they've been doing climate modeling and uh cloud physics modelling but there's there's nothing about how you'd actually uh get get the stuff into the ocean and up into the sky i i'm having to do that and then i'm trying to learn about the atmospheric physics |
| 23:31 | but from the point of view of an engineer who has to learn a new a new skill i'm happy about the engineering and if they can convince me that i'm the size ought to be different i will be able to change that the the the reason that i think we've got the right size at the moment is the papers by altascar and christensen and by the work by michola and those and the the work by a chuck called greenfield all of those point to the the size that seems to be a balance between the difficulties of filter filtering water and making the |
| 24:10 | the spray um i i hope that that number's right but we would be able to find about it and change if it isn't right um and it's the green field gap which i learned about um quite recently is exactly the same point as the others well it would seem to me is an ideal collaboration that you've you've got the engineering and they've done the atmospheric physics modeling yeah that you should be there's a bit of a prejudice against anything from outside of america um which uh have you offered help |
| 24:49 | uh well i have sent some information and i've told them what i think about although and i've had some worries about uh a very wide spread of drop sizes um if you if if you have a bunch of infantry who are doing exactly the same movements they don't stab each other with bayonets yeah if they're different sizes in different ways when they're trying to go around the corner the the big ones will bump into the little ones yeah and they'll curl us so i'm trying to get a very narrow spread i hope that we got the right size |
| 25:28 | but i want whatever it is i don't want to be narrow and with the spray that's being used at the moment in australia and being designed in america is a very wide spread and covering the whole range from the aching right through the accumulation brian i know you've got your hand up but i just want to say one more thing but do you speak because you know this this is the whole thing about these meetings actually people we can see each other we can speak to each other it's not exactly it's not i mean you still have to write |
| 25:59 | to each other with very detailed information but do you actually have you actually spoken to any of these people in university of washington i have had rare occasional emails i've sent them and i haven't said anything back no doubt they're busy and so forth but this seems to me a missed opportunity really with such expertise and then people not terribly aware of each other and would seem to me potentially very fruitful collaboration anyway let's make maybe come back up because there's there's so much else to |
| 26:33 | talk about here and so many people here um one last thing from you brian and then i'll put up the agenda and we'll see what else we want to talk about all these people here yeah i was just going to offer to steven that our climate foundation organization could help bridge the gap of not made in america and perhaps that's a we know some people at university of washington as well so uh perhaps there's a way that we can help to coordinate and uh you know deliver your your um approach and technology and |
| 27:00 | engineering uh that can effectively build uh you know the potential for more collaboration with uw was it where was it washington university of saint louis uh stephen it's the silver lining uh who i think round about san francisco and there's washington and uh the original work by john latham was at ncar in colorado very good we've got friends at all three of those places so i'd be happy to coordinate with you i'm trying to get the word out yeah thank you very much brian that's fantastic and then look forward to |
| 27:40 | seeing where that goes we'll sort of stay on top of it right um okay um so i started off with this this thing here welcome everyone um i think we have a good sort of like looks like about 20 people here um and i don't see any new faces this time um okay we'll do it do the usual put an agenda uh suggestions please uh any anyone and everyone everyone's welcome to put something in here i'm just just extending the discussion about marine cloud brighton and stephen's comments on the using it for the southern ocean which is |
| 28:22 | less geopolitical than the arctic uh you know robert schulich raised this uh recently in some email okay uh discussion about mcb for the southern ocean okay anything else that anybody or would like to announce or things should be discussed a little bit you know um there's something that [Music] came up today um about the some research on the amazon that suggests that it could uh turn into savannah yeah i saw that so i think that's a wonderful example of where one might use marine corps brightening or some other ocean methods and perhaps |
| 29:13 | stimulate some dms to uh because the dms is what the forest produces when it's healthy um lots of pollen and all kinds of lots of um yeah aerosol yeah so that's that stimulates the rainfall over the amazon moist air from the atlantic okay which showed that if you sprayed off namibia you dry up the amazon if you but somebody else the chap called ben parks showed that if you sprayed off recife which is on the other side of the atlantic away from the opposite from namibia then it made it wetter he also found that if you |
| 30:08 | sprayed off the ocean islands in the other hemisphere you've got a lot more rainfall in the amazon basin now while that should be i don't know there's many a phd lurking behind that but it's a very interesting possibility that you could sort out the amazon by spring up in the uh in the approach to the bearing okay right well opposite hemispheres are affected yeah right uh okay yeah so from the front absolutely could we add something i like to talk about monterey bay as a pilot site uh with regards to what pilot site for mcb |
| 30:57 | and sea devices okay i don't want to be too close to the coast because the cloud patterns change enormously as you go across the coast i'd like to be far much further out to sea the reason that monterey bay is is nice is this it's near where alma neucomas lives i'm more talking about it with reference to my seattomizers which are designed to actually uh generate new atmospheric moisture and downwind rainfall and and fog it's a perfect site i agree with that is there anything to discuss about that |
| 31:44 | um yes um okay so there it is sorry so okay let's find them so we'll put that up there leave that up there um are we talking about monterey california yes okay yep yeah hi grant nice to see you again thank you i will i will even show up in person in a moment it's okay it's all right yeah um anything else uh anything else at all to announce or things should be discussed maybe because i mean this is how it often goes isn't it we have nothing to talk about and then by the end we've got too much to talk about |
| 32:24 | we got a nice uh single page article in new scientist about um basically it was about boy and flakes well i didn't mention that that word but that was quite nice oh you got that a new scientist yeah you got that okay um yeah it's it's a ccrc got it and they mentioned about using the rice husks and the iron and the um phosphate i think they missed out on the silicate okay right okay so that's just an announcement that's nice to know okay um or any anyone been offended or by something i've written or someone else |
| 33:07 | has written or um uh i felt a bit bad um grant because um we learned so about uh the huxy eye from you um well two weeks ago and two weeks before that and it seemed to me um that our our uh ironsoul air assault proposal but chloride very small droplets over a large area of ocean it's very very diffuse fertilization that um we might get uh ehoxyi growing in the ocean as well so i felt i was kind of um sort of stealing your your uh your good ideas there the uh please steal our good ideas and place them wherever they |
| 33:48 | uh can add to the solution uh i've been we've been listening to a lot of people on a lot of formats and we are not above having a little bit of a transfer of knowledge and and inspiration from others either we are rethinking uh you will notice that in our presentation of two weeks ago the uh our impact was well the magnitude of the uh seating that was required was unquantified and obviously with some more information coming in we are still working on quantifying uh which has a direct relationship to cast reality |
| 34:39 | however there are from listening my listening over the past few weeks i think perhaps the biggest value we had was added was to identify that we need to be approaching cooling on many fronts that and that local and local applications are probably easier more easily accessible than the big global solution that we're all looking for i am particularly interested in chef's suggestion of monterey bay it happens to be only a couple hundred miles from where i live and in the great state of california the nation state of california |
| 35:34 | we have a governor who has high political aspirations and is his state is in the midst of a centuries-long century the largest drought since the 1500s and this is not a condition that's localized to california it affects all western states and it is directly related to the disturbance of the jet stream he may be well very interested in uh supporting at least talking about uh trialing some of these concepts in california where he doesn't have to behave himself in the way that some uh heads of government have great higher |
| 36:33 | heads of government have to he's uh and so there's a possibility there of advocating to the state of california that they should be breaking out of the complacency that emissions control is going to save everybody so i'm working with doug and others and formulating ways to communicate this opportunity to people who can take action and my own thinking is that we need to be looking for local proving local experiments local demonstration as in the case of australia john where governments are prepared to go it alone |
| 37:25 | because if we wait for a consensus i'll be gone away forever and look around these we may all be gone and the planet will be in a bigger state of disaster than we are today yeah so this sounds that may relate to uh what brian just offered um grant uh would that be right with the university of washington i think if you can get a university involved like the university of washington and uh cambridge climate claim cambridge centre for climate repair they're also you know studying and working on marine clinic |
| 37:59 | mining cloud brightening um if we can all get together and perhaps have some meetings of your own on this or whatever it is you see you see fit um yeah and i think that would mean getting some traction and finding somebody in a political position who will say i will listen to you that's a start yeah the next step would be i would speak to other governors in the uh western states and let's see how we can coordinate something that will impact our region absolutely that's just my ideas at the moment very |
| 38:39 | good ideas yeah brian please uh having several decades of experience with the california state government and associated environmental organizations i can say that it will require some very careful framing in order to present it in a way that doesn't step on uh well there's so many toes to step on it becomes rather interesting that's perhaps a double double-edged sword for california there's a but there seems like there's a hell of a need and this was um predicted as i understand it by jim hansen i don't |
| 39:09 | know it was in the 80s but his climate modeling uh said that uh the california would would suffer a severe drought and it's all coming true that is true i can say that uh from doing a lot of flying in that area um the spring and summertime marine clouds are low it's a stratus a low stratus cloud associated with low water temperatures and so it presents a distinct opportunity i would say to brighten those stratus clouds that could have a significant effect overall so it's a great place to do it in those seasons especially |
| 39:50 | and um you know it's worth a try particularly if we can uh make a case that there is no uh inputs if you will to the overall system yeah no inputs into the overall system sorry what do you mean by yeah um no runoff no nutrients nothing from land in other words the london protocol for example says thou shalt not place matter in the ocean with the primary purpose of stimulating the ocean okay so no no inputs whether it's farming inputs or other inputs is a big deal i'm with you now yeah don't don't add anything into |
| 40:23 | the environment that wasn't already there yeah um so it seems that kind of everyone's waiting for everybody else you know or hoping for something but if you if that when you if you can somehow coordinate uh then uh i think what's the phrase together stronger or something like that so thank you very much for uh offering your coordinate coordinating bright um you know help brian and also your experience of what it's like dealing with the california state government not that i know anything about that |
| 40:55 | um wow um okay what else have we got here um so any any else to add or should we just start talking about some of these things here we're just on that club yeah i think we really need to get some gravitas from some major oceanography institute trips and we're told the big players that that have real influence here would would give us a lot of momentum i think if if we can get some oceanographers on board as well i think that would would move the whole discussion further along so what's do you think that's possible |
| 41:40 | well we have oceanographers from woods hall on our board and we uh we certainly know a lot of oceanographers there i think it's good to be specific about the objectives and we're participating on the ocean vision seaweed sinking symposium that has or it's a actually a workshop running over a year or two that has 50 ocean augers from around the world so i think it depends on the context and the specifics and needs to be technically driven uh we do have a lot of contacts there but you know it requires context for those |
| 42:13 | contacts to bring to move that forward so which area are you talking about in particular well i think that moderate bay obviously there's there's major players around there aren't there you have to be really careful there the queen of the kelp is pretty reactionary when it comes to um when it comes to anyone touching your kelp forest or the entire bay so um you like it or not uh when elephant billionaires are dancing you have to be careful uh there's there's so much coastline to choose from not sure you need to be dancing in the |
| 42:45 | court of the queen of the count which is monterey bay is it yeah yes it is yeah so basically it pays to i mean santa barbara's got plenty of clouds instead of san francisco north coast so there's plenty of places to go down the coast of california so so maybe uh montreal bay is not quite the best necessarily yeah a couple thousand kilometers you know you don't need to be dancing in the lair like okay yeah okay go somewhere else no i i've got reasons against that but okay what are your reasons against it then |
| 43:20 | sev oh well do you want me to do the well that's just beautiful for this this item yeah let's do this let's do some do something shall we yeah uh so let's just just yeah i could either uh share screen or could you do could you do a google search on monterey bay and like so people can see what's it looked like and uh how far inland it goes uh what google maps you mean yeah uh that's it get it from here it's it's not only i think it doesn't have a double r isn't it well if i just put it |
| 44:02 | maybe it doesn't hope for the best um now you zoom out um i'll zoom out yeah and a bit much what are you looking for zoom in quite a lot more into montre bay yeah yeah that's good well back back there yeah now um that's as you can see is it's about done 30 kilometers in in in width and the idea is you have a the the californians and the feds in america are now are now just approving plans to have offshore |
| 45:05 | wind power off much of the coast so my proposal would be to have some of the earlier units basically going across the the mouth of the bay maybe offshore enough so you can't you can't see them and to take some of the power from those maybe of 10 or 15 units which are across monterey bay and to have a separate uh spraying towers to spray um reasonably coarse drops at at the low altitude and the ones which will humidify the air and the the brine droplets will then fall back into the sea before they get to land and then higher altitude runs maybe at |
| 46:04 | about 200 meters high to do the mcb side of things and that way the the winds are uh basically uh um from the the north or west so they blow across uh monterey bay right into um the sound whacking valley can you pan a bit to the right yep now okay well here's the uh yeah down here somewhere yeah is is the san joaquin valley to turn onto the layers the the uh aerial photographs yeah so seth that's actually the salinas valley and there are mountains in between the salinas valley and the san joaquin valley uh so you could it's a smaller |
| 47:01 | experiment but you could probably apply it to the salinas valley okay which is visible in the center of this photograph yeah now the winds are blowing uh from the north or west so they blow in a narrow band straight across monterey bay through watsonville and salinas on to trespanos and and and passings and then they hit the the san joaquin valley which is at the near the southern end of the um because the most productive lands on earth just about yeah uh you're missing by a hundred kilometers or so to the northeast that's |
| 47:40 | where the san joaquin valley is on the top right this uh salinas valley is pretty good it's a smaller valley there is some productivity there and then it goes higher and higher uh in the bottom left of the image here and then eventually peter's out completely but it's still a suitable smaller scale experiment there probably some vegetables there i've seen some broccoli and in the greener parts right next to the highway on the lower left it's feasible it's just a much smaller scale it doesn't quite reach the san |
| 48:07 | joaquin but you know it's still feasible and there's similar geography up around arcata which is going to be a lot less controversial than monterey you're going to have everybody and their uncle producing a nimby kind of result there but arcata and working with humboldt university is going to be another site that would be have similar benefits so there's several places and we're pretty well connected with teams across the state with the university of california and because the winds are so |
| 48:36 | um prevailing in in the one direction you get a very uh good definition between what's within the the moisture band going across and what's just outside it so you could see how much extra moisture and rainfall and that wonderful five o'clock mist which rolls across much of the california coast here you all you'd be doing is is magnifying that and you could therefore you could turn the sprays off whenever you wanted to so you'd have a a very good control the um the size of the droplets we can control by the |
| 49:26 | the pressures you are putting the the air into the into the spray nozzles and the um you'd be cooling the the waters off monterey bay in monterey bay because you'd be giving them mcb on the top of them and that would presumably help any kelp kelp would be there and if if that little experiment showed showed promise then you you'd have a solution for governor newsom for his wi-fi problem for his drought problem for his snowpack problem for his uh two hot conditions problems and if that you then decided to |
| 50:13 | expand it over a greater length of the coast the californians could then decide whether they wanted to use the power from the power grid as power or whether they wanted to use a proportion of it to make more precipitation and the cost would not be very great for that that fairly small 30 kilometer with pudding upper uh uh spray nozzles i think right so you're saying because there's going to be some uh wind uh farms built here uh already then uh it's a good um opportunity to do something else with them to use those towers for uh sea |
| 50:58 | atomizers you can use let's let them use whatever size they're wanting to make my my ones are normally two and a half megs they're going to probably put 10 megawatt ones in there it doesn't matter you'd simply use the power from them the local power from them to power the sprays okay right and and maybe if you like to to do a little bit of um uh iron salt aerosols as well or should that be uh approved yeah okay so i think that getting approval um is uh it seems to me to be the issue it was like |
| 51:37 | once approval once there's sort of political support and you know the impact assessments and all everything has come out okay then there seems to be plenty of money available we've got a sympathetic governor to things environmental and he's got huge problems with with the wildfires and there's been no solution to date that i've heard this does provide him with a solution which you could probably do within his next term of office he's got one more to come a four-year term so it'd be a politician who could |
| 52:11 | make his mark and have that recognized while he was still in power right but this is this is the governor of california you're talking about isn't it not not just a monterey gentleman no no governor gavin newsom of california right but so the the interest in monterey bay as far as you're concerned is that there's there would there's infrastructure planned for there anyway which you'd sort of you're in the right spot to show how you can help the the vegetable grows in in in the san joaquin valley |
| 52:43 | to not dry out okay but it isn't what i understand brian's saying is that there's lots of other places all up all up the coast of california where there are similar problems and wildfire risks and and isn't is that the case just seemed to be the best place for me but but there may be other places as well okay so i'm just trying to see you so your rationale uh which makes sense um is to use i just want to understand it basically understand that that's that's what what your rationale is that you're putting |
| 53:14 | forward um that because there's existing infrastructure planned you know uh wind gen turbines there and that they'd be there might be some spare power to use for an mcp another good bit for for california monterey bay the state waters go right out to to beyond the entrance to the bay and that's the only place uh on almost the entire coastline where california waters go deep enough out into the sea to allow my acetomizer system to pick up enough moisture and to go inland and yet to drop the the the salt before it gets |
| 53:58 | to the land right sorry we've got a bit of a buzzing noise from someone i don't know has anyone got a buzzing noise you might be able to mute yourself yeah we can hear it but uh sev why do you need deep water for acetomizers it's not deep water it's uh it's distance from the skull you need to have a circle to allow to allow the separation of the the sprayed uh droplets to give their moisture to the air and then to fall back into the sea understand that you've got about 33 kilometers there |
| 54:34 | and that's probably quite a good distance to have and 33 35 kilometers is far enough offshore for a 2.5 megawatt uh turbine not to be visible from the from the shore yeah i think there's some problems there because i know we can get far higher visibility and there are a lot of mountains there so some environmentalists will climb to the top of a mountain take a telephoto picture and say see it's visible but that's a problem for the wind turbine people the other thing i would like to comment on is that |
| 55:05 | uh with the salinas valley and other valleys it's wide enough that you should consider spatial controls and that's where the west at the valley would be treated the east test of the valley would be controlled or vice versa and by having that distinction then you could see the difference visually in a single photograph and that would probably be a great way to showcase the difference that's a great idea yes okay is that buzzing noise coming from you brian no it is not it's not from someone else you can check the participants list |
| 55:44 | uh well i i haven't got time to go through everybody um anyway it seems to have gone away now um right sorry um folks i got distracted by that noise just then so you're you were saying apologies i um it's just distracting what was that sorry what was that last point about the the benefit of so it sounds like brian that you might have come around and you were saying at 35 kilometers uh so i just like to make sure that this is understandable to if it's understandable to me that's probably understandable |
| 56:20 | almost everybody 35 kilometers i can see this looks like about 35 kilometers out here to to and then you've then there's a drop off is this what you're saying that you want to have wind turbines this far out no they'd be you see well see in monterey bay where the deep deeper uh canyon forms or just here sort of thing yeah a bit bit further to the left across like this yeah across there so that's that's where they'd probably be so that's a that looks like a length of about 35 kilometers but they're not 35 kilometers |
| 57:05 | away from the coast oh they're more like about 15 or 10. about 30. i've got 20 okay well maybe just about 30 from here from like that okay sorry so and okay so and um so you're saying this makes droplets um of brine and so you spray seawater into the air yeah of fairly coarse droplets yeah um those maybe evaporate down to uh they might lose a third of their water or half their water yeah the to the to the uh to the drier air yeah the brine falls back into the sea before it hits the land right and then the mcb |
| 57:56 | nuclei which you you spray at a higher altitude uh help nucleate raindrops inland and there's mist of course too right so you're actually adding water vapor to the atmosphere with this with this sort of coarse brine yes a lot a lot of water vapor a lot of water okay and that you'd probably be adding the water flow equivalent to the to the thames river in london wow across across monterey bay right a lot of water okay uh into water vapor into the air and then and then some marine club brightening droplets |
| 58:33 | uh that then nucleate that water and make clouds going inland as you as you go up up the the coastal ranges and and the sierra nevada as you go up higher the the the water condenses out because it gets cooler all right because you've got sort of mountains there okay and it just lifts them up and then it then then it rains over those valleys yeah well first of all the main the main effect will be mist increasing that wonderful california mist which keeps the redwoods growing right so where does that mist come from |
| 59:06 | rainfall further inland yeah so the but so okay so clouds so this mcb makes uh clouds which is same as sort of mist coming in yeah it adds to the mist and then you get more rainfall as it goes over the mountains it cools cools down as it goes up over the mountains yeah right um okay um all right let's see i wonder if stephen might have something because if this is in a fixed location so let me just ask stephen stephen this isn't the idea with part of the idea with marine cloud brightening is that you have |
| 59:40 | uh mobile spray spraying so that um you sort of choose your position so it's not to cause some problem halfway you know around the world somewhere else well the first thing i ever did in this game was to try and make the sea evaporate faster because i thought there was a very a layer of very very humid high humidity just at the last millimeter of disturbance and the the paper i did on this was with the wind turbine sorry sir steven just a minute there's someone there's a buzzing noise coming from someone |
| 1:00:24 | can you please uh you can see whose green microphone is going up and down and that's going to tell you who's got the problem and you can use them i think it's sam right ah i think you think you're right um okay thank you i i was muted when it was on so it wasn't you i think it's gone now so sorry i think i just muted you sev uh because i was just trying to thank you for that brian okay please continue the the first idea i had for this was a wind turbine based on the darius rotor which is like the egg beater |
| 1:01:03 | and what i wanted to do is to have the blades of the egg beater uh reaching down to touch the sea surface and water that got into them would be centrifuged out and the further out it would go the more the centrifugal force and then i wanted to have it being squared out through the trailing edge of the uh the giraffe blades the tropic skin blades and if you do that you recover a lot of the kinetic energy that you put into the centrifugal force so this is giving you a pump which is i've got no valves and no gears and no |
| 1:01:39 | pistons and no cylinders it's just the the hollow blade of the of the rotor and you'd be getting uh a few cubic meters a second out of each of these machines it was very important to be able to match the load to the wind speed and to do this and make the the spray i wanted to have a slit which had to be adjustable in its width uh which would be about 20 or maybe 30 30 microns and it had to be 500 meters long and i wanted to make it adjustable and this did seem to be quite a difficult engineering problem but the |
| 1:02:20 | way to do it was to have a coil spring that's coil bound so that the blades were all the way the strands were all touching each other and then just pull it out and this would allow you to open the gap and adjust the size of the drops and you want to do that to suit the volume that you wanted to spray and also the falling speed and the plan was as sev said was to have the drops falling back the salt residues falling back before the humidifier the air reached um uh the land this was back in about 2000 and john latham heard about this |
| 1:03:02 | and rang me up and asked me if i could make the spray of his and i thought it would be very easy uh but um it turned out to be a bit harder than i thought then but we we we're there now the i have a model built of this which i'll send you a picture of uh and it's um i was going to use quite small wind turbines but the more you the more power you have or the more turbines you have the more water you get and there is someone called wilson who's approached me recently about this peter wilson uh about this for use in in |
| 1:03:43 | um california don't think if you want to do marine cloud writing i don't think you need to do it from a big height because you can spray it at the surface what will happen is that it will the air that you spread it into will cool and it will fall down very quickly and then it will spread out over the sea surface and get warm and then go up from there and if you see clouds which are uh moving along if you take a video of them you'll see that there's actually a rolling circulation pattern and the air blowing |
| 1:04:17 | when the wind is blowing over the sea and it takes about 10 to 20 minutes for this to go through one loop up and then down again and you can see the clouds forming and then fading so you don't need to be high to do this and i think being high as you see is a difficult engineering thing i don't want to get too high because you've got to then provide a lot of uh stability for for role and pitch i can send you these papers and this is how i started off doing um okay latham's spray it turned out to be very different to |
| 1:04:57 | make the humidified air than to make the condensation nuclei um but that they were linked together okay thank you so steven and i basically trying to do the same similar sort of thing to add moisture to the air not not adding any salt and then having that moisture go inland maybe up to 100 or so case before it drops out right so it didn't seem to be any issue to do with mobile mobility of sprayers that uh you're just talking about a different method there yes for this you'd want to do it close to land to get you water there i want to |
| 1:05:36 | have mobility because i want to be able to move to where the the cooling is needed i think we have a need to adjust the temperature gradients across an ocean i've seen results from australia where it's the temperature gradient that really matters not that at the actual temperature and we can get a balance between uh what's happening in africa and what's happening in australia there was a time when i was having fires in australia and floods in kenya and i think it's the the temperature gradient just as much as the the actual |
| 1:06:11 | temperature values right okay so there's there's there's more a bit more to me okay so one aspect of mcb we're talking about an early uh intervention that would be very helpful to california state of california but it's by no means the big picture which does involve um mobile um bob mobile okay thank you very much right doug's had his hand up for a long time so i could see three people with your hands up doug please thanks um as we're talking about salinas valley and san joaquin valley and |
| 1:06:44 | and that in the coastal coastal range basically i grew up in modesto which is directly east of san francisco and i live my kids all grew up in oakland which is on the east bay of san francisco and the marine layer is stopped from coming inland uh it usually comes in in the evening only in the evening but it's foggy until about noon or two o'clock and it burns off even in monterey and santa cruz in that area i mean it's in north of there the um the concern i have is that the um the coastal range has vegetation on the western side only if |
| 1:07:26 | you look at that map on the wet on the eastern side of the mountains the first ridge there's there's veg there's no vegetation it's a desert so my concern is there's such a huge amount of moisture already there and it's blocked by that ridge i can't point at it with my cursor but um you um move to your uh left a little bit yeah you see the you see that the main highway that goes down the middle that see the dark green at the bottom that's on the western edge of that ridge on the eastern side of that ridge is bare |
| 1:08:02 | because the fog stops right there it doesn't come over it barely you know as the poem says the the fog in san francisco comes in like on cat's paws it stops at the mountains and it doesn't come over the mountains it does go through the golden gate bridge and through the delta area over to modesto in the evening so i think be real careful before you start talking about i think the salinas valley would work for sure because it's right there it's enclosed it's got a little basket a little mole around it |
| 1:08:36 | but you're not going to get unless you have i don't know don't you want to put a number out there but there's a lot of moisture already not getting into the san joaquin valley um so i'm a little concerned about the the assumption that it's going to go in um okay has anyone got an answer to that yes yeah brian ryan um so you've got a low marine layer that's cool and it's it's 10 or 20 degrees cooler and moister than the upper areas in the summertime especially it's stably stratified |
| 1:09:10 | uh in the autumn as well um and so there's a huge energy barrier to getting over that marine layer that's 1500 to 2500 feet thick and um it you know those mountains are comparable height and so it's just not going to happen it's like trying to get water to jump out of a ball uh that's the kind of justice that's the difference that said within that marine layer there are two kinds of connection that i believes have alluded to and one was one would be rayleigh uh raleigh convection where you have cells |
| 1:09:43 | if there's not much wind the rayleigh convection works well and if there is wind then there's a ocean analog and that is langmuir cells um and and those are rolling streets if you will that cause the sargassum doll bunch up in lines but it also a similar phenomenon an atmospheric version of it could be seen in this bi-layer because in many ways the marine layer acts like a denser fluid and i've seen it i've got pictures and videos of it flowing over the edge of the coastal range when it's just a bit high |
| 1:10:14 | enough but most most of the times it is blocked by the coastal range as doug mentioned if you uh if you can make enough water get there to make rain then you've got rain in the ground and you can pump this in pipes to where the deserts are but you need to do perhaps quite a lot more than just to produce the frog i agree i've driven along there and i agree exactly with what ron was saying it is a thing that really hits you you come from somewhere else um yeah i will know with interest that something close to 10 of um california's |
| 1:10:53 | electricity is spent pumping water in various places so we better use solar to do it but i think that's feasible i agree with that i agree with the comments that stephen made great okay it's nice to have some agreement thank you very much um grant please thank you uh i had come across the idea of uh managing climate uh when we were having some speculative ideas about uh the e-hux blooming but it is you know it's it's an extension of global cooling localized cooling affects localized climate and you know the mobility of stephen's |
| 1:11:41 | salt spray is fabulous where you could seasonally move from one hemisphere to the other or from the eastern pacific to the western pacific but the concept of controlling or managing california or in the western states climates is something that is there are trillions of dollars involved in both the upside and the downside of that and so it is a scalable concept it needs a whole lot more work and we can with respect gentlemen then we can gather in manner then we can gather here amongst us uh i am certainly motivated to |
| 1:12:28 | uh establish contact with uh the governor of california i would hesitate from saying and we've got this idea to put a wind farm outside monterey bay and exactly those words but as it's been identified california has a very long coastline and we can talk generically over that the first step is to get the idea accepted or acknowledged that at least at that level it's worthy of conversation definitely yes where we go from there rather than coming up and saying here is our home run proposal monterey bay uh as uh |
| 1:13:15 | brian i think has pointed out and and doug as well monterey bay is a gemstone of california it is the [Music] home of some of the wealthiest residents in the state and it has a iconic place in the mystery of california proposing that as the site for a experiment would be as the first offering would be a death knell to the whole idea so i think we should talk about the opportunity that exists along the coastline as you identified santa barbara has clouds santa barbara also has a school of marine biology there are other |
| 1:14:06 | opportunities the university of california may be one of the vessels that we could use to get some traction on this thank you for the conversation i'm very happy to be guided by uh californians about where would be the site the best site if i was just looking at the the physics but the politics are even more important so yes by all means choose another site unfortunately you're right sir uh there's a solution to this which is that the coasts of peru and chile are very similar to california and so you could do the experiments |
| 1:14:46 | there and there the the droughts are so bad that it's pretty well deserted and i think you might get much less friction by uh trying to produce the same real estate value in peru and chile that you're having in california yeah so i would recommend beginning at small scale with vessels that can do this you know much along the line that steven has articulated and at very small scale you know there's something to be said for logistical proximity and the fact you can get amazon overnight in california uh once you get to a |
| 1:15:20 | sufficient scale and then uh you know it becomes once the scale becomes too big that the permitting gets all slowed down and bogged down then at that point um i think peru and chile make a lot of sense for a more ambitious experiment that might be better funded and so we proceed in stages and right now it's a balance between what's logistically convenient and what's easily permittable uh so happy to provide insights on that to extend itself well great thank you thank you brian um yeah john please uh clive i don't know whether you can |
| 1:15:54 | swing you know you google uh earth down to bass straight in australia but there's there's a similar opportunity on another front like we're talking about here uh just this week there's been a game-changing announcement to replace cole with the 30 13 gigawatts of offshore wind which australia doesn't have yet by 2040 over a number of stages so there's another another similar sort of idea to monterey where uh yeah there's it's just down they're getting close now like just up in the in |
| 1:16:27 | the corner of the the top there um up here on that curve coast uh there that's now there's a major wind farm planned there called star of the south it's about two giga watts uh that the the easterly is blowing off the ocean there in summer and waft up the valley of the the latrobe valley and we're heading back into el nino and it's going to be dry again there's been a lot of rain recently but it's going to that's all going to reverse as we know so this is another i mean the victorian |
| 1:16:58 | government has announced this they're backing backing offshore wind that could easily be retrofitted or or initially fitted to those major wind turbines marine cloud brightening uh dispersion from from that location as well so just another we could explore a number of fronts okay so dutch engineers who are who may be able to get the egyptian navy to to uh irrigate northern sinai using the same idea yeah and you presented something about that some few months ago as well didn't you yeah it strikes me that there's a lot of |
| 1:17:41 | people who who just don't know about or who to go to or or what might be might be possible you know i think reaching out to someone like a state government's government and saying that there's a lot of discussion of this we don't we we could come up with concrete proposals we don't particularly want to because you know there needs to be discussion but but then we think there's a lot of lot of uh possibility here you know if you're open to solving the drought problem you know it and which would could could well help to |
| 1:18:11 | provide the kind of calling that's needed globally you know anyway um thank you uh john uh brian you've still got you've got your hand up i don't know if this is there something else uh yes i think uh in terms of victoria john can provide additional insight on this but winter time wind is particularly critical in the summertime it's quite likely we get plenty of solar as far south as victoria and certainly queensland the wintertime wind could be very helpful that to my recollection might be westerlies and then what's interesting |
| 1:18:44 | about that is it's going to have a coriolis turn to the left which will actually take it in fairly close to melbourne so there's some interesting possibilities there in terms of providing water or rainfall to that general region um and depending on where it is how far west um you know i'd be interested to see if we have wind turbines that are further west and victoria that could um effectively produce what the westerlies would could produce the mantra flow with the left turning coriolis force so these left turning corridors for so |
| 1:19:18 | the wind's coming down here you're saying brian are you coming you're coming from the west whenever you've got a coastal wind it's going to be turning a bit left so um john can attest to whether you get substantial west release in the winter and and and this these win these offshore wind farms i'm talking about in eastern victoria on the other side they the wesleys there could blow that out over over the tasman sea and and potentially cool the east australian current which is taking a lot of warm |
| 1:19:49 | water down past tasmania and affecting the the growth of kelp down the east coast of tasmania where they've lost 95 percent the last 30 years or so so it could have general cooling for the whole area that could spread inland and offshore as well yeah well seems like there's no very bubble there's a number of wind farms planted all around the coast here and up right up the coast past up to sydney as well so it's it's quite a big big vision to get into offshore wind in in a way we haven't even looked at |
| 1:20:21 | before right so again excuse me i think are you thinking the same way as um sev yes a sea atomizer so it's just that use the tower for multiple purposes no i'm thinking i've had some discussions with the star of the south i've got some ideas around adding marine collaborating to existing turbines i mean that that's that's major infrastructure and there's very it's very easy to scavenge off a little bit of energy from those existing turbines so it's this is an opinion this is a this is a |
| 1:20:56 | limpet hanging off the off the turbine which which generates marine cloud brightening yeah yeah um making it multiple maybe not exactly a sea atomizer but so that's something of that ilk well it's a similar idea but yeah it's along the same lines here along the same lines multi-purpose yeah yeah yeah yeah great so um what's that a lot of great ideas uh but i think what if there's if there's local government if there's government approval for these ideas and there's already backing then it's fairly easy to |
| 1:21:32 | to be a to be a parasite in a way and just give it more more value if that's possible so some some some proposing the the offshore wind turbines might say well we want to keep life simple then just concentrate on what we're doing uh others might say no it's let's add value so it's that's the argument i guess yeah uh if they're in business they might think well there's more money to be made well that's right yeah it's gonna be commercial yeah i i wouldn't have used the word parasite but i do understand |
| 1:22:04 | what you mean john [Laughter] okay um we're good yeah yeah um right we've only got believe it or not we've we've got 10 minutes left before we've had 90 minutes again um this was an announcement um i think we've just pretty much um done most of that john john you you've yeah i think you're very i've interested in steven's comments on the further south in the southern ocean okay vessels around the southern ocean to disperse broadly there any comments stephen is steven still there |
| 1:22:50 | he's on mute honey you're muted yes i'm on me you can do do spray vessels any way you want and you can get from the north pole to south pole in a month so we can do it to choice and we can learn from where we shouldn't be doing it and we can change according to the the season or the politics or uh el nino events or hot blobs uh the the there's a lot of variation going on summer to winter and east to west and we can learn to steer just like you can make a a a a road vehicle go along a twisty road |
| 1:23:35 | and i'm very keen that we should do this i don't want to bring any material out but if we desperately do need to bring some material out to mid-ocean then we can do the sort of thing that navy have learned with some difficulty to do uh replenishment at sea rat raz they call it and we could have uh some chemicals perhaps iron coming in mother ships and docking with uh spray vessels giving them a few weeks of operation but uh the present designer spray vessel is meant to be out at sea for years without having to come ashore |
| 1:24:17 | uh for any new fuel or um [Music] additives uh i think it will be set by the growth of marine fouling uh ships have to be scraped every five years so we're trying to make things last for that sort of period uh i don't think it's going to be easy but that's the target nine nine five year life uh for we'll be reserving well i think once there's political support stephen as i understand once there's political support there's there's money um and you know you obviously you don't want it to cost any more than it needs |
| 1:24:56 | to and i suppose contracts go out and people all kinds of experts in the field will say no no we'll just go put another vessel and put that one back to port or something but that but they know all about you know that's what they do all day long they've done all their careers yeah the the design is a whole bunch of plug-in cartridges that go into sockets in the vessel which means that you can build the difficult bits in factories all over the world and plug them in and take them out and replace them and put new ones in |
| 1:25:29 | and we can have uh competitive rival suppliers who agreed on the same interface for them for the plug-in and it'll be very much like the the the cards that we used to plug into 1960s mainframe computers so you didn't have to do any servicing inside the mainframe you just pulled the board out and put a different board in and then it will be off again so it's that that policy and i have the specifications to give to subcontractors for pretty well everything now and my suggestions about a way to do it but they would be free to |
| 1:26:09 | improve on that if we they will meet the the the pressures and flows and currents and voltages that the the system needs i i don't i'm a bit lost a bit confused stephen the the um cambridge climate repair are doing lots of experiments and sort of engineering um i don't know development with uh making small droplets but from the way of speaking it sounds so they don't need to be because it's it's already been well i i have i have sent them uh the the drawings that they actually published i've sent them the design of a |
| 1:26:51 | thing for testing filtration and i hope they build it but i haven't heard more from them about that and i think they're trying to cover all the different possible ways of doing geoengineering not just marine collaborating and i think they will concentrate on the one that looks as if it's making the best progress so i i have sent them quite a lot but i the information flow is unidirectional um they we had some uh a sort of uh update from sean fitzgerald i mean we're saying people are doing things |
| 1:27:27 | um and trying to measure it and and we've had i'm not sure who is hugh here today he was here for a moment he was earlier but he isn't now i think they're finding that commercial ones are too big and also too widespread for size uh i i would agree with that when they're confirming what i found rather painfully earlier on that you can't get the right size and stuff off the shelf uh and you have to uh you have to make it yourself make a new design right so that your uh drawings uh and designs haven't been |
| 1:28:06 | made by anyone yet is that right uh well we have made some of the nozzles uh at a higher scale than we finally need um we say higher scale what to a higher we want to make a nozzle which is 430 nanometers and we've got down to about 800 nanometers uh using a contact print which is a very cheap way to make silicon wafers okay and so not as small as you'd like just yet you know we know that we know that it will be a lot better if we use a more expensive imaging system which is a big lens so but we've we've managed to etch |
| 1:28:46 | very small holes from one side meeting a big hole from the other uh which is uh the that's the key idea of the stevenson nozzle and we've done that etching and i've got detailed drawings of how we could put this into a spray head this has to be able to be sealed off when you're not using it you don't want birds crapping in it and you have to adjust the number of spray heads that are used to suit the the the wind conditions and you need to prevent water drying out in the nozzles and you need to prevent it freezing in |
| 1:29:25 | the nozzles so you have to be able to dry out uh with flesh with fresh water and then blow air through and we've got all these back flowing things you also have to control the flow of the water through them without having any debris built in from from pipes or valves and we've got ways of getting a valve with with no sliding parts so all that's ready it the design is the way i would make it in my workshop which consists of five separate plates which are bolted together with different passages and holes between them you |
| 1:30:04 | could nowadays make this all with 3d printing and we could give the 3d printers the sizes and the pressures and things that we want so you could make them in a better way but i don't have a 3d printer that's big enough so i don't know any 3d printer yet uh if i could do that we would change the design but the moment there's a there's a detailed dimension tolerance drawings of what would work even if it might not be the best thing for the present day manufacturing right but it's a sort of version one |
| 1:30:41 | kind of thing that's right to prove some sort of principle yeah that's right yeah yeah okay well uh it sounds as though that's going to get taken forward um brian very um helpfully offered uh an hour ago that um introducing people so who's uh but i i know you're very busy brian with many many things um uh grant are you still there um you said you'd be um yeah i mean you're on mute someone has to draw how somebody has to i think drive things forward i mean i i keep these meetings going um but i i'm |
| 1:31:26 | wouldn't be able to do that especially as i'm not um not an american uh would you would you be able to sort of drive it forward at all grant do you think a champion maybe maybe and that's a condition maybe on other priorities i have in my life but it's something i'm passionate about it's related to conversations that i'm involved with with doug and others on how do we get people to take notice of the crisis we're in yeah and uh okay but doug i see you sitting up are you i mean you're very much a person |
| 1:32:09 | that drives things and contacts people in high places yeah we could think it's just to grant earlier that he uh if you know somebody at the air resources board in sacramento that might be a way to get to newsome um i'm i'm at a loss i'm almost i'm almost i don't know what to say um who's the right person uh peter pickowski asked actually asked a very interesting question of john who's the person and what do we want them to do and i don't have a clue and i am too new to this to be bothered |
| 1:32:48 | by that at the moment doug so let's i'll take it on and fail gloriously if necessary well so the thing is you have to know what what constitutes failure ron's ron you put it sorry go on let's just have her on because it's we're getting yeah so sorry i i it just occurred to me that um suzanne reed is out in sacramento she's worked with the government she actually is working with the county so she may be somebody worth contacting uh you know if uh to to approach people she's worked in california government |
| 1:33:25 | for for many years great okay thank you i will second that suzanne reed will have more wisdom about the uh navigating the politics of california than any other person i can think of at the moment so i think getting her advice if not her uh help and collaboration in any of these initiatives for getting permits it can be highly valuable i will make contact with suzanne and see where we go from there thank you thank you very much grant yeah thank you ron well we're at the end of our 90 minutes um uh thank you very much any any last |
| 1:33:59 | uh comment or or question just on some action down here uh clive robert myself work closely together we'll we'll write to the australian government about this idea of using the southern ocean for marine cloud brightening um yeah we think it's it's a better place to geopolitically than the arctic it it's very difficult to talk to the russians at the moment obviously and the other other people up there but the southern ocean might be a great place to actually run a trial uh you know it's uh |
| 1:34:32 | it's it's worth trying we've got the experiment going on the barrier reef already so there is some momentum we can build on here excellent so we'll we'll give that a shake here great fantastic thank you very much john so we'll look forward to developments in a couple of weeks yeah thank you very much everyone see you see you in two weeks thanks everybody bye thanks bye thank you thank you all sure thanks brian does anyone want to keep talking i can assign you to be the leader uh you're on mute um uh john |
| 1:35:16 | i can't hear you ron john but maybe you're saying yeah i'm just going you're going all right i'll be off i'll end the video oh yes there's one thing clyde yeah you had a very good speaker from reading on stratospheric aerosol injection do you remember from reading i think it was from ready uh at that meeting in london oh uh somebody from reading meeting in london no what meeting i think you might be thinking about someone else do you don't mean um jim um jim jim hayward that they that's the man yeah all right |
| 1:36:03 | what about him well he he seemed to be supporting the idea well that was about iron salt aerosol he was talking about volcanoes um he's he's a professor at exeter university and he works for the met office and uh so he and he um one of his papers he was an author one of the papers that pete that stephen cites sometimes jim hey what is it yeah heywood i think it's h a i think it's w-a-r-d hey what well i know i can't remember but if you look up jim hayward exeter you'll soon find it and he he's this busy guy you know he |
| 1:36:42 | sends but he he replies to me with kind of one line or two line answers yeah because um if i'm right about this stratospheric aerosol injection at a high latitude or moderately high latitude it would be fantastic because it's so simple |