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| 00:21 | hi Bruce CL how are you doing Happy New Year same to you Happy New Year yeah doing doing good thank you been overdoing it but I've been teaching all day today so there evening uh Chris I mean um yes Chris yeah get the names right happy New Year yeah you too every else yeah I S Happy New Year to you happy New Year Bru looking good hey hey bru your background is very um inappropriate at the minute it's been snowing K yeah yeah think of warmer days Chris yeah God I got probably got a surf tomorrow and it's going to be biting on |
| 01:20 | the ears yeah where's that bit of Coast by the way in your picture that's um suum it's just just off all right okay yeah my my hometown Devon man yeah you're very much a mariner I understand Bruce Brew yeah yeah yes brought up on the water One Way or Another You Tales of Daring deeds and stupidity I bet entertained yeah how are we doing for time we're nearly nearly we're nearly at start time nearly there yeah and uh so yeah yeah everyone sudden it it suddenly fills up yeah yeah I've got a suggestion um |
| 02:21 | hesitate to start talking about it because I mean we can't stop and then not everyone's here yet so we have to just just chitchat at the beginning it's hard isn't it so did anybody get anything nice for [Laughter] Christmas I got a I got a a body warmer that's good so you know one of those things a girlfriend don't say that with my wife in aot I I got I I I got a coffee keep warmer oh good uninsulated mug very good quite appropriate for the weather John uh kept the hot cup of coffee going for |
| 03:10 | three hours in know so um I was playing at a rehearsal for a couple of concerts next weekend so I do a a rehearsal weekend with with local Orchestra H which is local to heart piure so I have to um coule up to London what' you play John a double base well that's what I'm playing yeah really a chist um not not so good on the double base I guess they needed double bases yeah is it unusual that both uh Britain and Australia are getting floods at the same time I haven't remembered that in the past um well certainly a normal time of |
| 04:06 | year for us yeah yeah but not for us this is Midsummer oh right okay yeah you're the anomaly uh well we've had rain for an awfully long time it's been wet for a couple of months yeah the the Met Office said that the last three months of last year were the wetest on record full stop yeah yeah certainly we we we had driving rain and 80 and 90 n gusts and the house is damped through it got got in under the eaves and filled up a car so now I'm fighting mold right should we get started gentlemen what do we want to talk about |
| 04:53 | today I've got a suggestion for well I've got something I want to just put to everybody uh which is I've got a simplified um uh Graphics which I'd just like to see if there's any comment if it's too simple um making the case for marine Cloud brightening um case for MCB uh for MCB see if anyone says but anything sees anything wrong with it otherwise so so I've sent it out a few to a few people uh and um haven't really had much comments so I don't want to send it out too widely if if people are going to say |
| 05:39 | hey hey C you're you're pushing it a bit it's too simple okay what else anyone we're talking about cop in h pack so I guess we don't need to talk about that here it's up to you I mean this is for yeah I mean AG pack generally has presentations doesn't it so yeah somebody presents yep yeah I'd like to hear about um some of the projects which um uh Robert and and and and others are are are working on okay Robert um Robert who tulip if he's here Rob tulip here well I'm working on it as well hello |
| 06:30 | everyone okay well Rebecca then and then and then John McIntosh McDonald oh yeah John's working on it as well so yeah John's working on a number of them he's got about three going so so I think we'll put this I'll put you down for this s since you've asked for it and say no I I'm asking for it yeah I know um so project report maybe yeah uh project updates how about that yeah yep updates from um Rebecca yeah John um and Brew maybe sure stepen Sal's not here is he not certainly not no not yet I'm working on |
| 07:21 | something as well oh yeah B of course yeah yes which John knows John McDonald knows about yeah that be good so um yeah I'm bit surprised FR isn't here uh be pardon add add your name to that that list yeah I just put my name yeah yeah okay did yeah any of you see there was a thing on the BBC News website today with a comment from Jim Hansen about 1. |
| 08:00 | 5 having arrived in his view already even though the the normal way they measure it apparently is it's got to be up to that level for for a decade before it becomes official it seems a little bit um well not exactly lacad isical but seems to be not quite what I would have expected overtaken it I heard about it earlier saying that yes I read his it's been kicked around in a few Vlogs and things in the last few weeks yeah but to hit the BBC News is is Big isn't it that's well this is the the news website not the actual website sorry |
| 08:37 | right so 1.5 dead effectively yeah yeah yeah yeah um I'm tempted actually just to have a quick look now at uh the uh this this Sam Karena character which I think is a sort of name for what do you call it a spoof name or something for someone at Nasa that doesn't want their real name to be known or or their sex they keep very quiet whether they're a man or a woman yes okay right so so here here's 1. |
| 09:19 | 5 it's hard to see um I wish these were a bit more graded that but anyway so that's 1.5 there there's two which is the one below two going along here yeah yeah so it went above two in oh day of year November 17th November 17th is that yeah there was a different there was a similar thing that had the months on it um maybe it's might actually be the previous one here I no um that's the one I just the one you just had up which was this month included going up again sea surface was this one here oh the Sea Service temperatures yeah yeah oh this |
| 09:59 | one here yeah look at that yeah yeah that I mean that's a huge jump if you look at that yeah we carry on like that yeah I mean and just look at 2024 yeah well 202 so it's taken an uptick over Christmas yeah yeah literally it's got huge jump in the last two weeks what's this I'm heading upwards and what is it daily sea surface temperature world uh okay between 60 and 60 this is this is stuff of climate reanalyzer yeah yeah right yeah yeah 6 to 60 North quite interesting issue what's interesting about that well |
| 10:51 | just the taking that plot off it central band if you like the central band of of the whole world yeah yeah yeah so it's not localized yeah I'm hoping um Sean Fitzgerald will join us there's been a bit of toing and throwing between him and me in the last well day really um because I've been saying MCB should be prioritized and he thought I I was saying dump everything else which not really saying dump everything else uh is this important in the chat here oh yes thank you Chris yeah um um but um clearly you know with temperature |
| 11:32 | jumping like this I mean that's and Jim Hansen's saying uh that the energy imbalance has essentially doubled so the warming is now going to go up at Double a rate um for the time being at least anyway uh that these these ideas of of one day reducing emissions a bit uh should should be should be frankly de prior well not not dumped in the in the uh in the bin of history but the direct calling as we all know is what should be prioritized yep anyway so um where were we then yeah dead so that was on the website yeah yeah the other item of |
| 12:18 | Interest we don't need to discuss is that um the person who's going to lead cop 29 is another oil industry person for which is extraordinary uh yeah should be extraordinary and it's going to be in Baku is it in in somewhere like that is it Baku um I thought it was aab isn't isn't thatu is is that I can't remember yeah anyway it's around there anyway and it's I think there blot of oil extraction there yeah around the Caspian Sea I just tell you I was speaking to her Simmons yesterday and that he has already made a |
| 12:55 | hotel booking for Baku uh £25 a night [Laughter] which hotel T let's move there yeah yeah okay anything else what else do we want to talk about tonight there was a a Radio podcast on the ABC about um global warming will benefit some parts of the Arctic and some people are advocating it Russia and um other places in the Arctic I could just put that in the chat yeah okay yeah that's been has been sort of raised before but at the same time they're are downsides as we know because they in Russia they've had |
| 13:44 | problems with infrastructure and the permafrost melting and whole structures sort of sinking into the permafrost some of which is for oil and gas well that's one of the reasons we've got all these fugitive methane emissions it's the natural gas pipe which are breaking they've got huge problems yeah yeah and they're all they're all mounted above the surface on little concrete PLS and standing up so they're breaking everywhere I wouldn't be at all surprised if in the next uh decade or so |
| 14:20 | we won't have ships going on the transarc passage suddenly igniting uh methane uh players uhuh that could be pretty scary yeah yeah absolutely well it's a good thing depends on a bit the route they're taking because the main place that their methane's coming out was the east east Siberian shelf which is close relatively close to the Russian coast and depending where you're heading from you're probably going to head across more across the central Arctic I would guess that's true but there are |
| 14:51 | some shipping going coal shipping as well yeah true exactly the um and you tend to skirt around the edge of the ice pack which going to take you on the inside tracks well the way that it melts in the summer now you don't have to keep too close to the coast I don't think no if you get enough methane you can sink a ship a large ship because one end uh is uh when it has bubbles underneath it it just uh sinks through the it's got no bcy yeah that that's supposed to have happened historically if few weird |
| 15:29 | circumstances where whether it's volcanic eruptions or something between Grenada and St Vincent um the the last war 1940s sometimes there was a packet chip used to go to and fr between the islands and there was a party in St Vincent and they all left Grenada to go to the party and off the North Coast of of Grenada there is a volcanic um site known as kikam Jenny and the ship just completely disappeared and they believe she just sailed over a a a big gas emission from kick Jenny and just plummeted into the |
| 16:09 | ocean went down 2,000 ft right so let's get started shy I think that we don't seem to have any anything interested um yeah I I would like to say something about tipping points okay yeah good evening Ursula lovely to see you good evening lovely to see everyone happy New Year and to you um right so John um sorry John I forgotten already forgot what you said there um oh tipping points tipping points right um tipping points more on tipping points y okay that's that's good perhaps let's move that up a bit that's |
| 17:00 | a fairly meaty thing isn't it to talk about yeah okay anything else right so let's um okay so the first thing then which won't take too long I don't think shouldn't take too long is I've made some screen I've made a couple of Graphics to make uh the point to to try to make it easier for ordinary people who are you know young people is Jim Hansen keeps saying you know young people need to learn fast what to do I I don't know that's one of the things that well what that's one of the |
| 17:43 | main things I wonder if that's really fair we look at those of us here who are perhaps with the exception of you Ura I don't know um I tend to be rather older people I don't don't think of myself as an old person at least not yet my wife says I'm behaving like an old person but but um it's older people who've had a chance so first of all you know usually don't have the the financial um burdens um or you know what I mean they've got a bit of Spare Time essentially spare time |
| 18:16 | and worldly experience seasoned um know the way things really work in the world and um you know got a in many cases a good scientific you know a rounded scient and Engineering background so um yeah so so that's seems to me that that young people anybody really needs to know needs to be communicated with the young so many young people here what I'm trying trying to say here so many young people we hear are you know they don't know what to do that they're extremely depressed about the state of the climate |
| 18:54 | and extremely alarmed and they don't seem to be no matter how you know loudly they scream at governments you know it's it's more and more being hosted by the fossil fuel industry we laugh but they're not laughing basically so anyway so here it is this is what I'm asking I did this in Excel um and this is the first graphic real really simple just to point out that the way I describe it is an enormous amount of sharing it I'm not sharing the screen oh you got to unshare your other one I thought I was sharing I |
| 19:26 | was sharing the wrong thing here we go um right thank you yeah so here it is um uh yeah the reason the Earth is Waring enormous amount of energy come is coming in every day it's 340 watts per meter square if you think about 100 watt bulb well the oldfashioned ones that made a lot of heat that was a lot of heat and it's three it's kind of three and a half of those every meter squared so it's an enormous amount of heat that comes in from the Sun every day and nearly all of it leaves on you know the same day or you |
| 20:00 | know on average and it used to be exactly the same amount that left the the energy that went out of the earth and got went out to space every day exactly the same amount on average and that's why for 6,000 years sea level didn't didn't really change and now the amount is very small difference it's only kind of 1. |
| 20:23 | 4 um watts per meter squared which is only a tiny little light bulb every meter squared joh Jim Hansen points this out in his book um um storms of my grandchild says how could such a small amount actually be warming the whole planet well the reason is because there's so many me square meters covering the whole planet so it does actually gradually warm up the planet and the cumulative effect isn't it C and the cumulus effect thank you very much that's right year after year after year after year yep so we're gradually warming up and it's most of the energy |
| 20:51 | is going into the oceans as we know so but this is as simple as I could make it you know it's nearly the same this These Bars are nearly the same and the second um second one I can go back and find that one is here and um and that one is is saying here here are those same two bars and the outgoing can be broken down I've really really simplified this some of you will know this as the uh Earth's energy budget poster from mic from um NASA which I've highly simplified down to reflected by CL so this |
| 21:31 | 339 ends up being these figures here which add up to 339 reflected by clouds so this is we we'll call this short wave radiation but you could just I haven't even bothered to say I haven't even said that reflected by clouds reflected by the surface and then reemitted as as infrared radiation so the only way the Earth can lose heat out to Spaces by radiating it out you know there's nothing to touch to conve it to to con conduct the Heat way so it's all done by radiation and this can be increased and |
| 22:03 | this is already quite a sizable proportion it's actually 23% of the outgoing 77 of 339 is there anything wrong with this is there anything particularly misleading about this well there may be something substantially wrong with the whole hypothesis of this uhhuh because the thing that's not in most of this is the destruction of the Earth's biosphere natural cooling systems it's the loss of 50% of life on the planet it's the massive reduction the am of forest and it's in not not only the reduction but it's in the loss |
| 22:43 | of health and the loss of D biodiversity in it yeah and its natural ability to transmit heat off the planet and maintain its temperature it's like you or I suddenly being unable to sweat perhaps we'd be to the Faulkland and a helicopter and got terrifi yeah seriously I mean as far as it goes it looks good yeah all right think it's a simplified thing the basis to going forward and I think it's a good start okay thank you there is more to it as Brew said there's a of course there's a whole lot more to it and this is this is |
| 23:18 | only showing this is not saying anything about the fact that the Earth is actually has warmed up already uh and that's why these figures are are less you know if the hadn't warmed up um the this amount would be different you know the um so because the climate forcing is anyway so let's not go there so the point the reason for the point of these two slides is purely to make the case for marine Cloud bright for cloud brightening any sort of cloud brightening that's not to say that's job done you know wash your hands and go |
| 23:52 | everybody go home absolutely Bru and I use you what you've said about um the loss of biomass being a huge loss and um which affects the the uh affects the ability of the atmos of this system to absorb carbon dioxide yeah Robert Chris yeah I want to make the observation that I I just looking at this thing obviously from for a few seconds yeah immediately um disturbed by the box that says this can be increased uhuh because my reading of that is that that one can but the other two can't uhuh okay not true because they can all yeah so I |
| 24:37 | think I think you need somehow I'm I'm not sitting here to just to invent off the cuff but I think it needs to be made clearer that you're highlighting the clouds because that's the focus of your attention it's not that the others can't be yeah okay people will go go away from that with the wrong message confusing and then discount the whole thing yeah okay so that's how about if that said this can be increased by Cloud brightening yeah that more specific and relevant perhaps to your |
| 25:12 | case yeah because I totally agree with you uh Robert that yes obviously the surface one is relevant to what Mia's looking at yeah that's right yeah and eyes thickening yeah reflected by surface yes yeah I want to keep it as simple as possible so that would be something else you know um reflected by yeah well I suppose you could bring the whole global dimming thing into it you know the sulfur aerosur and such like which are already reflecting away some of the I think that's something to do after this point because I think you can't |
| 25:51 | load too much into this graphic without um it becoming a bit too complex yeah yeah okay and Mana Joe please yeah I have a a minor uh suggestion in that the arrows are pointing down you're actually talking about reflecting out and up uh and and I don't know what could be done about it but it just it it kind of stumped me for a moment I just wanted to share that well could you just make the columns into a big fat Arrow so instead so each column would then be pointing up if they had a an an arrow shape at the top of each |
| 26:41 | column H just change the direction of the arrows so they're going up or put them on both sides double-headed arrows yeah yeah I like the idea of making these these actual columns thick and turn turned into arrows themselves so they look like outgoing per make that but an arrow pointing down this an arrow going up and make those going most arrows going up Y and you might have a U-shaped arrow that comes in and bounces back out uh there is also if you could put a link into there's the classic diagram that |
| 27:21 | shows all of the ingoing and outgoing energy in one graphic which has probably been in ipcc reports and so for a long time yeah I'm looking at it right now I printed it out and I stuck stuck on my wall so I look at that every day that's a simple diagram yeah simple diam something simp yeah but a link to to go to it if anyone's thinking you know you've just made this up um I think if you just take away the arrow part and just have the three lines yeah yeah you don't need that might help there it was |
| 27:55 | just a little confusion confusing terms of Direction really just take just taking these arrows out just take if they were L take the arrow heads out take away the heads of the arrow ah right okay yeah it's just a line not an arrow yeah okay that's an easy thing you've got you've got two Reflections which you could demonstrate as a reflection and you've got one emission yep yeah so Arrow one once two are two-way arrows and one is a oneway arrow uh yeah but um all I really want to show here is the relative magnitude |
| 28:39 | the main thing is the relative magnitude between reflected by clouds and the total outgoing turn it into a pie chart not so easy to see with a pie chart be very fine with lines surely just lines just lines so CH the arrows into lines that's a very easy fix um maybe make these into into an arrow going down I don't think EXO will do that uh Chris Chris mentioned that there's a very standard diagram showing what is reflecting yeah's got it got it yeah but but has anybody produced one that shows the changes that have |
| 29:24 | occurred well I I haven't seen one that shows the changes that have occurred and that would be very interesting yeah so sort of 1751 against current day you mean yeah yeah1 would been they would have been the same uh yes yeah so let's look at those yeah thank you for that I think I'm I'm that's very helpful to me uh we put in energy budget do Chris do you think there's anybody you could uh get any uh governmental organization to do that uh mark up the changes uh to those someone might have |
| 30:08 | done I guess um I don't know um could could you look into that ask a colleague who might know more about that yeah brilliant to show the changes to all these values that you can see here yeah um let's just uh look at this one but I S I think most you know scientists are very familiar with this ordinary uh you know ordinary folk again I'm thinking of young people who um are trying to get their head around this stuff and it's a lot to think about uh it's more difficult what's the name of |
| 30:41 | that one that's um the different green I've show I've definitely I've put it up in the past I can't remember what it's called you know that one that's that shows the um changes to emit to absorption and and reemission the Forster the forer one that's in the ipcc that one I'm going to have to look for it oh but but at the risk of boring everybody um I could find it in a in a you know it's it shows horizontal lines this one here we go that's it there oh yeah yeah so that's showing the changes |
| 31:26 | this is showing um the changes carbon dioxide since um between 1750 and 2019 it's very slightly out of date but they're not that different now and this is the overall forcing so um so this is the this is the thing that um this picture shows a difference of only 1.4 between outgoing and and incoming um whereas this one this had me scratching my head for a while um ah what's what's happened there my windows has done something weird uh oh dear please start again that's most appropriate yeah right yeah because I've got oh |
| 32:13 | friends you're there we can see it you can see it okay you can see it all right thank you yeah okay um hi friends but you weren't coming yeah you wanted to say something about this uh you're muted friend you're muted we can't hear you I miss uh in in your diagram and uh the U part of absorbed um radiation uhhuh which is not turned into uh into uh warmth this one no you must make a new uh uh colum make a new col which is which is absorbed by by the plants and which is transformed into carbon but the columns on the right are |
| 33:11 | just for outgoing energy only which is the point of those so you're changing things a bit by suggesting that friend yeah my reason for this friend you might have missed um when I said the reason for for this is to explain to new people L non-experts yeah uh that there's a very small difference between the incoming and the outgoing and uh clouds are already quite a large part they're 23% of the outgoing um and um clouds can have been brightened by shipping pollution um less so now that the regulations have coming we' talked all |
| 33:48 | about this that that's the point so yeah okay friends yeah I I uh would say they absorb and transferred into carbon uh minimizes the outgoing yeah yeah okay I'm just this is very um I'm just focused on explaining the reason what the big opportunity for marine Cloud brightening did you see we had the pictures of the the anomaly this one here France we were talking about this is sudden jump yeah 23 yeah yeah um and it's a bigger here so we must do something urgently and the thing as I understand it the thing that |
| 34:35 | can be done most uh quickly and effectively and would have an you know an immediate effect I mean we've seen an immediate effect where are we we're looking at this one we've seen an immediate effect from the pollution regulations because there's less Reflection from uh you know the ship tracks the clouds made by ships as they go across the ocean and and so this suddenly the sea surface temperatures are zooming up in temperature and so we we know that that that was was working they didn't we now know how effective it |
| 35:07 | was it's only since it's gone that we now realized it was providing a lot of very powerful cooling we want to bring that back and that's what Ron's Ron Ban's Letter's all about which there was an email just just just now actually that it's been um being handled by the European Union the European commission was they published it so it's getting going somewhere yeah so these are the different this these are the changes um and so since since 1750 and and here this there's been more cooling |
| 35:35 | so there's been more more warming influences from carbon dioxide from methane and other stuff um and there's also been more cooling from the extra clouds from the pollution and we don't like pollution we've been cleaning it up so this has been getting less cooling influence has been getting less which means the total warming has been getting more and this is the total amount of warming the total extra warming influence from these sources since 1750 the thing is what isn't shown on this diagram is the fact that the the |
| 36:06 | Earth has the fact that the Earth has warmed up means that it it itself just because it's a little bit warmer is is emitting more so this goes on and on you know we can get more and more into details I I I just want to know if there was something wrong or misleading about this as an argument for marine you know for cloud brightening and um I've had some very useful feedback so I'm I'm very happy with that thank you very much everybody um manager yeah um and oh Rebecca yeah I wanted to agree with what |
| 36:40 | France just said I actually had a discussion at a family party or friends party on the weekend about MCB and the young person said to me exactly what France just said that um all the natural ways of absorbing carbon need to be ramped up um so I'm just saying I'm sort of wonder whether this diagram already assumes that you're in the know about things I don't know okay so the way this comes across to you assumes that you know reg um requires a certain uh knowledge up front is that what you're saying um Rebecca I I wonder |
| 37:19 | I wonder about that um I mean I know there would be some words that go with it but um and I like what you're trying to do but um yeah yeah I'm not saying don't don't do all those very important things um to you re reforestation uh primary productivity in the ocean I mean cooling down the ocean we we have these giant schemes that we've been discussing here for you know the last two years giant schemes to fertilize the ocean but we've also been talking about how the rapid warming of the ocean surface is reducing the mixed |
| 37:58 | the mixing of nutrients which used to happen and apparently primary productivity has has reduced was it 40% since the 1950s that's that's a stunning amount of less there's a recent publication Clive that suggests that isn't the case come to later yeah I think I saw something about that so there's some question about that but we don't know and once again we're we're not certain but but we do know that um the the surf of the ocean has uh is becoming stratified and that is having a detrimental effect actually |
| 38:35 | cooling the ocean surface back down to its pre-industrial temperature should would I mean we know it's would reduce that stratification and the mixing process uh would I mean it's it's some parts of the ocean are naturally stratify because they're they're quite warm anyway the tropical ocean but but the whole oceans would would restore that the nutrient levels should restore to pre-industrial levels and that's an enormous amount of of natural fertilization just by nutrient mixing because the oceans are |
| 39:07 | full of nutrients that's just that they're not right at the surface surface they get used up so to me cooling provides that enormous side benefit of of reducing the stratification and allowing that the ocean to naturally um produce nutrients you know mix the nutrients in the in the surface layer so yes uh um I agree about that I'm just what I'm trying to do here is yeah okay thank you for that comment um manag Jo you still got your hand up did you want to say something else yes um and it was |
| 39:42 | to support what uh France is saying I think that um on its own it's clear and and I think you'll take these suggestions and make it more clear but it really ideally would fit into an overall um uh presentation that helps new people to understand you know the whole um what I call Global science uh and then for each sector uh which in the presentation that I use I divided it into terrestrial uh marine or ocean and then um atmospheric uh but it could be done another way but I I think that it will help to have some introductory and then |
| 40:46 | zoom in on this uh because it is important to um that new people understand and the mechanisms that are already in place yeah if that's helpful it does it is helpful yes thank you um yeah I have been actually just sending these these out a little bit of not not much more and yes that makes a lot of sense I do actually have I think was you mentioned I've created a big long frequently asked questions document I need to get that finished actually I've got I've had some feed quite good feedback but people |
| 41:22 | found a few bit more work to do actually some things that are not quite assistant friends did you want to say something more friends I only want to say uh CLI you're right uh Cloud making uh works much faster than uh trees planting yeah so but we should do both should do both yeah yeah yeah yeah in other words you need to put it in context that's basically the point isn't it yeah yeah put it in context yeah put an overall present presentation put it into context yeah yeah so I think think uh but that's helpful as well so I think |
| 41:58 | kind of I've been sending this out as a as a sort of dry just just on its own and it's not really enough um it should be put into context okay thank you very much everyone for that all right so let's go to the next thing on our list um okay SE you'd like to hear some project updates that's a very good idea I think how how are people getting on with the various projects we forget what they are when we don't hear for a while uh would you like to give us an update Rebecca on on what you're working |
| 42:29 | there's a bunch of you working in on Australia on a project fundraising I believe is it well it's um Australia and the UK as well as uh some help from Ron and Herb occasionally um John and myself are the ones here working on the it's called Marine cloud rebrightening and basically um we're trying to support Steven and uh Steven Suter and also um Alan gadon with testing field testing and modeling for for marine Cloud we call re brightening to emphasize that it's very natural um and bringing the clouds back |
| 43:10 | to the brightness they had at pre-industrial levels um basically Steven Suter has purchased a large workshop at lonee head in edra and he wants to build a wind tunnel there to test um salt that's generated the first step is to generate the salt the mic the submicron size uniform size um and then test it in the Wind Tunnel the effects of it which is a controlled experiment um and separately um Alan is going to do some more climate modeling so that we can update on where and when it should be deployed um this is quite technical |
| 43:56 | engine engineering Focus research and we're not at the moment trying to get into the advocacy or um governance space although we know that's needed um what we're trying to do is get support scientific support for the need for MCB RB or re brightening um because funders have so far not come at it because I feedback we had from one person was that they can't they don't know whether or not this is um seen as a priority by either for example in Australia's CS CSO or the climate policy Community um |
| 44:46 | so even though it's quite clear what we're trying to do we haven't had success so far John do you want to say anything else about that oh just to maybe emphasiz to the it is a all about funding as Rebecca mentioned um there is the facility to donate on the website re Bright and. |
| 45:05 | org website now and there's some activity there we've been talking to some of the major engineering companies like Wy um who may come on board and and help either sing engineering uh people or or or or or through their philanthropy um but uh it's all about getting the money looking about $5 million to Kickstart it and and to support Steven's work as urgently as possible so it's it's look it's it's under the office of the climate Foundation Brian's it's under under Brian's organization and and Stevens |
| 45:42 | operation in Edinburgh as well so fing you're saying Rebecca um we've approached Arya um the UK Advanced research Innovation agency they are quite clearly framing the need for um responsible engineering they're calling it so um yeah we haven't quite got a mechanics sorted with tax deductible donations in the UK as yet which we are doing um but the small contributions that our group is going to be able to likely make are not enough to get it rolling even though the the first thing is to employ an |
| 46:30 | engineer and we we think we might have enough funds for that um and Alan is performing Miracles by getting some of the modeling done through existing resources as we like to say in treasury in other words um perhaps for free I'm not sure but well it built into existing budgets of some of the climate modeling organizations but anyway um we're hoping that I mean we're not even even really sure whether we've done a credible job in outline but that's where we're up to you sorry you're not sure if what was |
| 47:03 | that if we've done a credible job in outlining the prospectus on your website you mean to people yeah okay um well things can always be improved I looked at your website it looked pretty good to me re Brighton a done by Daniel yeah yeah that's right I forgot to say Daniel's a key member in the UK as well as Alan and um Steven yeah yeah yeah um i' I'd be there if I had time maybe I should come to your meetings and be part of your group as well because I totally agree with everything you know |
| 47:38 | with what you're doing yeah it's all about getting the droplet sizes right the nozzles and the the sub Micron droplets before there's any discussion of field test which I'll hopefully follow on but it's really got to go back to basics and get th get those nozzles working so that's that's where the emphasis is and this uh this wind tunnle that that Stevens's uh designed is the ideal place to do that just outside Edinburgh yeah okay all right thanks for that update um so are you in the process |
| 48:14 | of of applying for large funding is have you have you got sort of applications that you've you've made to funding agencies really m no and you wouldn't call what we've done with our ear an application they that he says he's seeking ideas Mark signs and we've written to him right yeah I met them by the way I I wrote to them and and I actually met them and I hadn't realized you were separately approaching them um so well apparently they asked stepen for an interview as well so um that was good |
| 48:50 | about a few months ago very good yeah yeah excellent yeah yeah good yeah I mentioned him as well so um so this it's good that we speak separately so we can kind of coordinate if necessary Okay cookie huh yeah hello Ron Ron Larsson can you hear can you hear me that's not just Rong continue okay um what else um anything else uh was there anything you wanted to say John um I'm not sharing uh John McDonald less terrible well one of the projects of course is our Nutri ERS that is we're working on it's a climate AR |
| 49:38 | that cly myself and France and der been working on it's um that's a ship drawn or or current drawn device there there are many ships out there that could do the work of bringing up nutrients uh if we can bring it up from from down not too deep but just to the level where there's sufficient nutrients without bringing up too much CO2 but it's all about phop Plank and the the DMS benefit of making clouds from DMS right there's the um there's the the reing the oceans and the and the and the the aen carbon |
| 50:16 | draw down as well of course so we've got we've got the the University of tasmania's Australian Maritime College working on it that they working on it and um doing the all the drag television calculations and all the all those sort of things we got to look at the heat trans the temperature transfer heat exchanges the end of it uh so equalize cool water with war water on the surface so it doesn't drop straight back down so it's quite a tricky thing but you know it's a it's a it's a design |
| 50:47 | exercise at the moment so do you want add to that five um not really John we I'm interested to know what we talk some more we have our own meeting tomorrow night don't we um we'll see if there's if any anything more to discuss about that um so let's um see what Brew do you have an update for us yes I was out in Geneva before Christmas but we've been um advancing our bias restoration plan um sorry your what restoration plan biosphere restoration plan biosphere thank you yeah y uh fundamentally |
| 51:28 | we take the Viewpoint that um uh we need to be really positive we need to bring in very large amounts of funding um we need to create a framework within which this can happen which requires really good Earth system accounting as opposed to the fraudulent accounting structures that we have globally now in that we calculate growth without taking into account the massive unfunded liabilities of the the damage that we've done so uh I've been working with the International Center for Earth simulation uh Foundation out of Geneva which is my Bob |
| 52:04 | Bishop behind that um we've also teamed up with equity for Humanity uh I'll drop a link into the chat so you can see who that is um and we've got some support from the Swiss government in respect to that in that the Swiss government for um policy Securities security policies um uh backing supporting that um so the premise is that uh we've got to build a planet for 9 billion people living well by 2050 um this centers on the sustainable development goals and their delivery and we put the argument forward that if you |
| 52:52 | deliver those goals you move from about 2.3 bill billion people living well now to 9 billion people living well and the impact of that on global GDP is absolutely enormous um 10 20 30 40 times vast increase um QED if you deliver those goals you have stabilized the planet you've sorted out the oceans you've sorted out the land and you've created massive markets uh and um therefore we're trying to point the directions this is where very large scale investment should go now equity for Humanity is a banking group |
| 53:30 | who are all centered around that and this is about calculating the forward actions and the wealth that's created basic business plan stuff actually um to persuade major money to move in that direction um we've um bottom up and top down um from the bottom up we we looked at within this accounting structure the premise that the ultimate human asset is a healthy biosphere and we've gone after that figure of 550 gigatons of existing biomass 50% loss so we have a 550 gigaton deficit and we translate that to |
| 54:18 | 550 billion tokens we we're describing as an empathy token at the moment um and the aim is to build an accounting system based around that we're going to kick it off by launching our empathy token um along with the biosphere restoration plan story which we're going to take out to the youth and put out across social media with a call to action inviting people to invest in their future uh by investing in equity right now we've got a deck which we're putting out to various prospective investors they'll |
| 54:53 | come in at a significant discount on the first five to 10 million of equity tokens that that come in um and that will pay for uh the promotion and in fact we're involved with a number of promotional projects um going out to the youth around the world the call to action will be coming and invest in that and I'm pleased to say that we've I think we've selected uh Team who are going to be putting the infrastructure together um so we get there we're we're moving along quite nicely um general direction um as |
| 55:31 | we get this empathy token structure going the intention is that we will be talking to all the various science friends climate friends who've been involved particularly in anything that's biomass regeneration related and airdropping tokens to them to represent recognize the work that they've done um that also will take the word out further so that's that's what we're working on them great sounds like a lovely idea any any comments from people uh I've just got one comment that um what sort of question really it's |
| 56:10 | what it's promoting is a restoration of biomass is that right did I understand that right well no it's actually it's telling the whole the story of what we've got to do which is you Ender pollution it's also going to be promoting law of ecos side so the framework to supported um the LA of EOS side requires proper system accounting yeah it's only emphasis on temperature is there anything about temperature like ocean temperatures oh yeah I mean that's all part of it I mean with some we need to deploy every single tool |
| 56:44 | in the Box the more diverse our Solutions the more likely we are to succeed but you cannot embark on any of the projects that we're talking about embarking on here if you don't have real really good monitoring and feedback and consolidate all that information which is what the International Center for simulation Foundation is about um it's the climate data the ocean data the agricultural data the business data the mining data the whole it's a full working model of the whole of system to develop that's interest sorry |
| 57:17 | say again sorry project but it's uh that's over six seven years a seven-year project are you saying to bring that into place although I think we can have dashboard and we can have pretty good um uh living carbon Accounting in place within 18 months because a lot of that data already exists that's just bringing it in okay great um Chris uh sorry Robert Chris I just I just can you clarify exactly what it is the the kind of the structure of this I I get I get the impression that it's some kind of as it |
| 57:56 | matures it will become some some kind of commercial Venture where there'll be a product or something that you are selling and generating revenue from and that that Revenue will be reinvested in other products that will be yes what exactly the market the product or the service you're offering and and and why would people buy this well the base argument as I started up saying is the impact of delivering those sustainable development goals are moving from a market of 2. |
| 58:28 | 3 billion people to 9 billion people um creates an enormous amount of wealth and the only way I can see or we can see of attracting insufficient Investments at the scale that's required is to point out to the great pools of money that are out there that this is the the way forward this is how they can have a a profitable sustainable future this is how pension fund managers um can deploy Loy resources uh to deliver what we need for the future we've had to construct a story which will appeal to the widest possible audience so you know I have no |
| 59:06 | truck with people that say there's too many uh people on the planet um you know we have to come up with a plan that is inclusive for everyone um what is it that the investor is don't what is it the customer is paying money for when somebody gives you money not not an investor in the in in the entity but a a customer gives you money what exactly are they getting in return for the money they're giving you initially they are coming in and investing in the further development of the plan and the distribution of the The |
| 59:39 | Narrative the story which itself has a value so so there is no financial gain for them for their investment it's effectively there isn't no there is a financial gain because the the tokens that they hold which will all be blockchain mounted which will three years down the line be linked to the total amount of biomass they'll be linked directly to the health of the planet um there therefore if everything is delivered and you have a huge growth in global GDP we'd anticipate that the value of those tokens will go up |
| 1:00:13 | substantially so it's literally investing in a healthy future so what your what you're actually selling is an an nft is linked to environmental good good management yes non-fungible to token this is part of blockchain yeah I mean it's it's kind of like the bricks countries you know are trying to go after asset-based currencies this is the ultimate asset and we're having a crack at telling the story bringing some major investors on board so the so the activity of the of the Venture is to create the um underlying asset value of |
| 1:00:54 | the of the the nfts yes in the first instance actually th those those funds that come in that people purchase those tokens with will go into what we describe as the um biosphere restoration fund right and that that we will then work with banking Partners who will be directing those funds at very large scale restoration projects so you know I I I hope we'll be funding sev's um Bo flake projects and many of the projects we've all been talking about but the idea is a dedicated fund that's going after that |
| 1:01:31 | and it's ticking off its value as things increase now very large scale land restoration projects um you know rebuilding the the North African forest for instance will have a dramatic effect on the economies of those countries um and I describe this rather as you know when Europe expanded into Eastern Europe and we poured money into Poland and Romania and those other countries um it was expensive to start with but down the line you've created enormous markets and enormous wealth and we need to be doing |
| 1:02:08 | this on a global scale I I understand it so so effectively this is a a a blockchain type Arrangement and yes when you when you were talking about uh the the necessity for proper accounting the reason for that if I if I put my accountant that on is because you have to have some solid credible um confidence in the underlying asset value of the tokens because otherwise I mean down the line I see every square meter of the planet having the living Carbon on it recorded yeah and I mean OB on the oceans it'll be more spread out be |
| 1:02:51 | kilometers whatever but fundamentally we have the ability to to take every square meter and record the amount of Life on that square meter so that becomes that becomes your asset base so so just to just to just to repeat this point so I'm absolutely clear the Venture does not actually manufacture or Supply any product or service directly that that an individual or a corporate that would buy as such and pay for as as as an input to their own um activities no well until you get into the bi restoration fund which is a banking |
| 1:03:31 | structure which will that the assets to that will be reflected in these tokens and that will be investing in major projects which will be profitable y y and and therefore the asset value will increase behind all of that but there won't be any dividends being paid to the owners of The Tokens The Tokens will be tradable oh yeah I know that they'll be tradable but they won't be there won't be an income stream from them they'll be now we get into clevering there's every reason why they that potentially |
| 1:04:04 | can be depending on the projects one goes into and will be able to direct you know you have sit right the top or you can say well I like ocean stuff or I like desert Reclamation or I like I I I like Cloud brightening um but it's building an accounting system behind all of that so we can get to a position where you can actually calculate the value of marine clim brightening or of um you know ocean surface changes um it's this we we've got we've got to responsibly account for everything we're |
| 1:04:39 | doing okay got the picture everything works you build a framework and all the things we're talking about become doable yeah um Rebecca you want to say something um brew that sounds wonderful I just wanted to say the link that you put there doesn't actually talk about anything that you've just said at all it doesn't talk about tokens or accounting systems or no that's that's that's simply showing you the um equity for Humanity site early stage but it tells you some of the people involved in it |
| 1:05:14 | okay you also want to go have a look at the um uh International C simulation Foundation site um there's a little bit on the invation but we're working all that up I mean we're I just that's wonderful y could you put that other side in the in the link as well please um sure put the website on okay um if if you want to did you want to display the website yeah yeah you can you can sck the link in there just . |
| 1:05:57 | org and the Isis site to go find that for you [Music] quickly and paste that one for you is that yeah Foundation yeah I was going to say so this sounds like is this related to Natural Capital the principles of natural Capital natural capital is is yeah part of it the natural Capital calculations at the moment tend to um make it quite complex and we're basing ours on that living um carbon natural Capital calculations will calculate in the oil reserves of a country for instance mhm and the mineral reserves and build those into whereas actually |
| 1:07:02 | some of those things are probably negative assets and like to be stranded assets okay yeah but the concept is is similar yeah I mean I natural capital I I never thought of natural Capital as as oil reserves I thought it was meant to be you know species about to go extinct and things like that it's they Tred to the whole thing and different countries accounting for it in different ways okay um we're trying to make something that's uh that's deliverable early because the the um the satellite data is around now and |
| 1:07:38 | the the the resolution is getting better all the time yeah great and it's a it's a big story we we need major major funding in behind it and I'm you know we're looking for heavyweight Partners who will pick up and run with it uh and not assuming that our little invation is going to run the whole thing we're just you know kicking it off and putting some solid ideas out there and saying hey you know actually get real we need to recognize that the the key asset is a healthy biosphere which of course |
| 1:08:12 | at the moment we all know we're on on track to wreck completely yeah um yeah and and we have agreement 195 countries that have signed up to the to the delivery of those goals so we giving something to the politicians um to answer the cry this is what you should and we're giving something to business which points in the direction of real profit and we're trying to show a way where all of those underprivileged on the planet can see a way to a brighter future great okay how do you account for the Arctic and what's happening to the |
| 1:08:53 | Arctic well it's that that's part of the earth system accounting job um and that's part of the damage we're doing to the biosphere as it stands uh if we get the building whole earth system accounting structure correctly then it will recognize the value of restoring the Arctic and restoring the albo impact so all of those natural systems start to become properly accounted for and it it also is it's Humanity taking responsible control of its own environment it's an interesting thing that all natural |
| 1:09:32 | systems colonize and stabilize it's a it's a rule of Nature and we are part of Nature and our role is to stabilize our planet our home I mean there's no way that Humanity would tolerate The Descent into another Ice Age and the whole of the northern hemisphere being covered in ice sheets we are going to take control of our planet and it is a natural thing to do as a biological creature part of the part of the overall ecosystem of the planet it's kind of gu Gaia in practice it's Gia on steroids yeah |
| 1:10:10 | yeah great okay thank you very much Brew brew for that um that's I've learned something more about Invision there um okay you to add something on uh on a cwe glider didn't you John what's that the the kelp glider yeah there's another another one of the there's a few in the in the in the system um the K gliders a is a method to use ocean currents like the East Australian current which is a lot of power in it to cycle um an array of any form of seaweed uh up and down steered up and down without a motorized anything |
| 1:10:56 | motorized it's just using the energy of the current in the form of a wing with a large harvestable array of kelp or other seawood at the back of it so it's um yeah it's it's it's it would be mored obviously and if if you got a carrot of you know four or five knots like these strain carrot would just cycle up and down up to the surface for sunlight during the day and down to the Deep for nutrients at night and uh wouldn't require any any form of um other other form of energy to operate |
| 1:11:30 | it so this that one another one in the system uh is a plan B for um uh that I've got for for marine Cloud brightening which may be worth looking at it's uh it's the idea of Simply boiling sea water and uh but seawat by itself is just a pure plume so you need to R train particles of of salt back into it that could be the energy source obviously boiling water used a lot of energy the energy source could be wind turbines or it could be um Sol Marine solar it could actually be all the ships out there |
| 1:12:10 | again which have heat exchanges they boil sea water they for diesel and for their own HVAC and heating cooling and so forth so there's POS there's up to 50% of excess energy that could be used case too so that's that's another method I'd like to like to test further so trying to trying to I've done some some preliminary tests uh that look promising but I need to get a very powerful particle analyzer to really really analyze the size of the particles submicron particles that result from |
| 1:12:47 | that but one of the benefits might be that putting the uh the plume up a flu of a ship actually dries out some valer droplets you produce them under pressure and then you send the plume up to flu and that may dry it out and then end up with more submicron droplets but it's about getting the the range as narrow as possible to get the maximum brightening effect so that's what's got to be tested and that's a that's a work in progress as well yeah okay well um shall I talk about mine then FR uh SE |
| 1:13:24 | uh it's not really mine it's it's again it's involving uh John who's just spoken and also France and there another gentleman in our climate arcs group I was just having having haven't put the image on there John so there's no nice picture to show people yes um um which you you made so I need to put that on the website so people can see it um so what what um what this is about is um recognizing um that uh ships have we know that ships have been brightening clouds for decades with their emissions we don't particularly |
| 1:14:04 | necessarily want to you know just go back to emitting sulfur dioxide um I think we're not even sure how long if suf dioxide oxidizes to sulfuric acid all that quickly anyway um we know that we can make particles solid particles um U so for example ammonium chloride is a food additive so we don't see that as being particularly dangerous I mean especially when it's in very very tiny quantities uh it's very easy to make submicron particles um chemically and France supplied us with about a couple |
| 1:14:43 | of dozen options ammonium chloride being one of one of really good ones um and very cheap ammonia hydrogen chloride pardon me they're mixed together and they they make an ammonium chloride as salt it's hygroscopic so it absorbs water from from the air and you can make the the right number of particles you can make you know tent to the whatever it is so let's let's bring up the spreadsheet so so what so how would that then be delivered Steven has given us time and again actually he's given us he sends us sends uh his PDFs |
| 1:15:24 | around Swartz and Slingo um the appendix and the sent um the slightly longer one recently which which I finally found the time to read I need to read it properly but better um very very helpful to to see uh what what clouds are you know how um particles nucleate into into droplets you know the kind the number of them that become Cloud droplets they don't all become Cloud droplets and and so much depends on on the speed of the upd Dr you know how long they they they have before their the you know their the |
| 1:16:00 | other particles next to them you know other particles out compete them for the available super saturated water vapor in the air they take a little bit bit of time to to grow you know and it can happen very quickly as we know when you breathe out on a cold day you know you've got warm moist air that then becomes super SED because it gets cold very quickly can't air cannot hold that water vapor and there's always dust particles there are always dust particles in the air and those the due forms on those tiny little particles and |
| 1:16:31 | we see breath so it's been very interesting to to learn about all this um and so so so my John will know this and France knows this I'm I always say but how can it be made affordable how can it be made really cheap um and how could it be spread over the vast you know areas of the ocean um without being disruptive and problematic and so we've come up with the idea of uh floating cheap you devices that are controllable from a central meteorological control service center so that meteorologist when they |
| 1:17:17 | can see there's a so for example when they can see there's a low pressure we know that low pressure areas there are cloudy the reason they're cloudy is because the high pressure is pushing the air in and the only way it's got to go is up so the air rises up as a goes up it cools as I've just been saying it becomes super saturated if it rises fast it becomes super super saturated very quickly so clouds form very quickly and this is why why low pressure are cloudy and so if they if they can see look there's a low |
| 1:17:48 | pressure area coming here um they can have these little we call them I I call them fads it's fa floating aerosol dispersal drones or devices try to make them really really cheap so they can they know where they are they've got a GPS you know GPS is so cheap now it's in everybody everyone's phone and so forth little paddle that operated just by the fact that it's bobbing about in the ocean just Orient it in the right direction maybe stop it from drifting too far they're all going they' all |
| 1:18:16 | drift at the same time they' need to be kind of shephered by some service vessels and refilled and stuff um but they the control center would be able to say look this here's a low pressure area um produce certain amount of aerosol so that when it when the hot when the um high pressure air comes in you've got additional particles making bright clouds that are going to be brighter which means they reflect more than Stevens told us about the alre effect which means that they last longer before they rain out they they and Singo talk |
| 1:18:48 | about um suppressing drizzle so they keep the the water in them Bel longer so clouds are are still being uh intensively studied and researched by scientists uh around the world as far as I can tell and they say that they are they are getting somewhere they are well they have been for a long time but they they're getting better at modeling Cloud processes which are very complex um so this is this is our idea to have fads now what I did fadds floating or so dispersal drones and uh just recently not even John and's friends haven't seen |
| 1:19:26 | this yet um so spend too long on this I wanted to calculate um costs and uh ah yeah we'll hear from you in a moment Brian so and I need to find someone um Pi pick a victim uh like Roger also helping us These Days Roger AR Arnold is talking with us he's rather technical um these these numbers here so the ocean area is uh the tropical ocean area this is a good place to do this is is not saying it should be only the tropical ocean are it's 770,000 um yeah let's go go to the left here we go is 170 ra million rather um let's go |
| 1:20:13 | up I'm going to have to just make this a bit small for a minute got the right place physical data ocean there we go so the tropical ocean is 17 million that's right so 1.7 by 7 10 to the 8 so it's 170 that's right 170 million um square kilometers is tropical ocean area so I can't to be honest this is quite useful to to get comments I can't quite visualize so this is putting them 15 in in squares 15 kilm apart from each other that's quite a long way it's sort of about 10 miles away from each |
| 1:20:50 | other in a sort of square grid so quite a large area surfaced by serviced by each one um that means if you cover the whole tropical ocean you really don't want these to be disrupt you know they've got to be squeaky clean you know um almost a million um and then so what what about Cloud calculations I got these from Steven some of you might have seen I put Steven's numbers in from his um calculation and they came out exactly exactly the same um but you can all these when it's blue you can change the |
| 1:21:26 | number so so 30 is not untypical for the ocean thir so 30 particles per cubic cm um and actually uh that's I can already see that should be existing oh that's right so 30 so existing is 60 and then add 30 which means you got 90 uh 90 particles so with 60 particles you can calculate the reflectivity this is a wonderful uh equation given to us from Swartz Slingo by Steven if you've got the cloud depth the liquid water content milliliters per meter cubed and the number of uh Cloud condensation nuclear you can you can |
| 1:22:12 | calculate well you can estimate the reflectivity so 48% reflectivity and um and so the assuming those are the same same uh Cloud depth 300 M same liquid water content but um 50% more so another an extra 30 Cloud condensation nuclei we then get a 52% increase in reflectivity which is an addition uh which is additional so it goes up to 52 which means it's an additional 3. |
| 1:22:51 | 3 and actually Roger suggested that probably the cloud the tropical cloud top sun power uh that that um watt per met squar I showed earli was 3 340 is is an average in the tropical stronger so we put in he ranked about 5 560 and then if we uh so when we multiply 560 by 3% that's 18 watts per meter squar but that's just where you've got a cloud that there wasn't one before or we've got a brightened Cloud um if we've only got 40% cloud cover and so I put in this because I wasn't sure how much heat gets trapped take off |
| 1:23:28 | another 20% um but add on the alra effect so there's a whole bunch of uh modifiers here that you end up with with 6.9 wat squared that's still very much worth having um because we've got you know an energy imbalance of 1.3 right right now 1.3 so 6.9 is a very powerful cooling effect for that for that little place you for that area where that's happening um and uh so then I just thought I'd put in some uh so put in these worst bad typical good and best and then other that you can just put these in and press a button and works |
| 1:24:07 | them all out so I've in the middle there yeah typical so we got oneoff costs number of boats and manufacturer of these little floating devices that are all connected I I think they can connect by uh an air what's called an acoustic protocol NATO I realized actually n n realized quite recently NATO have have already um produced a way of using little um pulses low frequency pulses which travel for miles and miles 20 28 kilometers under the water uh so that's why I'm suggesting less than 28 kilometers it's a maximum |
| 1:24:49 | that they can so it's cheap you can communicate between between these things um like its own sort of own little internet well huge internet o Over the Sea where they get told to shut off or start up if it's going to be a low pressure area whatever whatever the meteorologists want to do so for me so it's the idea is it's a it's a tool for meteorologists to add particles and make more clouds so you see 1. |
| 1:25:17 | 6 billion um but oneoff costs 1.7 billion these vary a lot they vary enormously depending on kinds of parameters so I wanted to see um uh Brian you had your hand up had a hand up a long time Brian I forgot what I was gonna say so long sorry um okay uh well you may want to reconsider the name fads Because unless you want to attract a lot of negative attention to your Innovation because fads are considered extractive um fish aggregation devices yeah right well that's already taken in the industry right fish extraction fish aggregation devices fish |
| 1:26:04 | aggregation thank you yeah widely used by people in the certain parts of the world okay this is why we talk to people like yourselves you can give us that information you know is that like Chum throwing out a bit bit of a no nothing like that all it's just a a inert essentially a floating boy device with some structures underwater and that attracts fish and things to come underneath it you then get stuff growing on it and it's it's a bit like um the sort of plastic stuff in the Pacific has stuff growing on it and |
| 1:26:38 | you get fish associated with it well thank you for that that's easy to change that I'm in no way wedded to any name um we haven't spent any money telling anybody about names so um I just wanted to come up with something quick cu I can get on to all this other work um so thank you for that Brian any any comments um we've got two other items as well to to discuss but I'm happy to hear feedback Ursula M you're muted you're muted Ura you're still on mute still muted hi sorry yeah um I it was just a |
| 1:27:23 | point about or a question really a bit of both just to ask you um it was regarding what Rebecca was saying in her project about um she used the term rebrightening and I've noticed that people sometimes say brightening sometimes rebrightening and I really see that I think that um that really implies doesn't it that you're going back to the Natural condition of brightness the uh pre-industrial times with the term rebrightening and it seems is it that the chief or you know the thing that people object about the geoengineering |
| 1:28:02 | is that it's um you know their Chief thing is that or it's too radical it's too risky and it's not responsible and all of that so um so it's a question so why don't why isn't it always called rebrightening because really you're just that that um kind of implies that it's a natural you're just returning it to its natural state of brightness whereas brightening sounds something it kind of um you know sounds that like it's something yeah uh very you know it kind of give you know |
| 1:28:40 | what I'm trying to say it implies that it's something playing with nature artificial or more you know whereas the re why is that I don't know is that are they used interchangeably or you know like it why don't we if we're if people are sending messages you know writing papers or I it's just a question is it do people often use more often brightening or re brightening I know it's only a little point but um more often brighten question really yeah more often brightening so the scientists call |
| 1:29:12 | it Marine Cloud brightening they talk about brightening clouds taking a cloud and getting it to be brighter uh it's the folks here actually that have um it's us us with our conversations here we've talked about re brightening particularly the ocean used to be rather more reflective you know when it had more biomass in it um was more sort of turquoise one things Bruce says more turquoise in color and more reflective and now it's just deep blue it's absorbing heat from the Sun so it's the |
| 1:29:38 | ocean we talk about re brightening and clouds clouds have been brightened by pollution believe it or not so shipping pollution is what's been making that clouds brighter and um so now they've it it's it they've gone back back to being a little bit less bright more like what it was before the industrial you know before there was any you know ship shipping on the ocean um so but we need that that we've had by accident we've had artificial brightening that's been countering the warming um and this is |
| 1:30:13 | what um uh Jim Hansen what's he call it um The fian Bargain we've had this fan bargain with pollution that's been masking the warming but now that we're cleaning up the pollution the war that it's now unmasked the warming you know um which is uh accelerating the sea surface temperature but thank you always love to hear you know from you about how it comes across yeah Brian I'd like to respond to that Ursula thank you so much for that question I think part of the reason for the distinction in terms has |
| 1:30:46 | been historic there's been Decades of conversation about Marine Cloud brightening and a geoengineering context and and other other contexts um but I think um we've recently stood up the re bright. org website and are really interested in building a movement with greater social acceptance recognizing that uh getting back to pre-industrial conditions has potentially uh greater social acceptance also recognizing that many of these interventions have had barriers uh when it comes to social acceptance we're seeing the opportunity |
| 1:31:20 | to increase that social acceptance by um recognizing that moving back towards closer to pre-industrial conditions can be a strong advantage and thus we'd like to get a popular and Grassroots movement going to support re brightening projects around the world including the UK and Australia uh and other places so it is a gradual Evolution I would say re bright and. |
| 1:31:44 | org is very new in the sense that we just stood up the website a few weeks or months ago with the help of Rebecca bishop and uh so many others in here in this John McDonald and uh and Robert tulip and others um and so you know we're very happy to kind of grow this as a community I think as a collection of nonprofit organizations if you will it's our Challenge and opportunity to um coordinate efforts and not step on each other's toes and I think um this is very much with a an eye towards inclusiveness that we'd like to move the field forward |
| 1:32:15 | one step at a time I think it's our Challenge and our opportunity to coordinate activities among many nonprofit organizations to really build the social awareness and the social acceptance of uh potential approaches that will be practical and politically expedient and the need for research you know the reality is that there will come a day in the not too distant future when some politician has a Grassroots mandate to try to do something about the horrific climate we brought upon ourselves and the only thing that he's |
| 1:32:43 | got in the climate Triad that occurs that works within an election cycle is going to be something like Marine Cloud re brightening and so unless we know a lot more more about it before this urgency to scale uh comes to pass uh you know we uh will be in trouble so I think our Challenge and our opportunity is to build support for the research that can lead towards what I'm going to call deliberative democracy that can lead towards uh local and Regional Solutions and I'm very happy that some of our rebrightening efforts do work at a local |
| 1:33:15 | and Regional level so that individual communities and Coastal communities and other regions can choose for themselves what kind of climate they want to have and can actually work to um regenerate healthy climate in their location and region even if the world is behaving somewhat insanely for the last few decades and at present thank you for that explanation great yeah thank you Brian now sorry folks we've come to the end of 90 minutes Wellies mainly to John Nissen um we have uh tipping points but I'm |
| 1:33:50 | going to have to to say we'll have to do that next time but what I'll do let's do the same can I can I just say that yeah I I I sent out uh my hopes for 2024 and um in the hopes that people would kind of um latch on to it and agree with it uh Clive you were the only person who came back and said you you had some disagreement but you didn't you didn't say what it was oh didn't I I can't remember that so so that would be nice uh you say what that was you you made some admiring remark about my I |
| 1:34:33 | think enthusiasm or something well you you just keep going John you keep reminding us how dire it is and how something must be done um and uh that you know it's it's very easy to become complacent and and you keep kind of lighting a fire uh so yeah so the the typ point is something that um dipping points are something that's been uh misunderstood deliberately or not I don't know but uh the climate science Community have always kind of pushed them ahead in time so was kind of 1.5 was going to be the threshold for |
| 1:35:14 | a whole lot of of tipping points uh whereas previous papers had said they come in at different temperatures and some of them come in at one degree and I pointed out that a whole host of them uh were triggered at 0.5 degrees warming in in in around 1980 that hasn't that hasn't been recognized and the other thing that hasn't been recognized is is that our weather extremes which most people uh think of as the climate crisis uh uh Al although now that we've got raw heat in the oceans but that will get |
| 1:35:57 | Amplified in the Arctic and it'll make the Tipping points accelerate even more and the Greenland I sheet melt even faster uh but the critical thing is that the is the behavior of the jet stream we've got to renormalize that in order to get uh normal behavior back and and I suspect something similar is happening in the southern hemisphere there so there's some kind of polar amplification going on down there uh which is uh causing the um uh Retreat of the of the glasses there those warming of the uh of a certain level in in the water |
| 1:36:44 | which leaks the terminations of the glassiers and makes some accelerate there yeah there's been a lot of sea ice lost isn't that right the The Ice shelves as well yeah yeah so that's the sh shelves act as a kind of B work against the glassier so you tend to get acceleration of their descent from that as well yeah yeah so lot lots of doing so we need actually polar cooling is prime thing to be concentrating on as a as a priority that's my argument um I have to the bulletin of atomic scientist there they've got an |
| 1:37:26 | event on Thursday discussing security and climate change but I don't think they they're really appreciating what's happening so the climate I've sent them off a letter about that okay so at least they're talking about yeah example yeah a recent example of Tipping Point there was a um YouTube just put out out from a webinar uh Dan Miller put on on amok uh tipping points that came out on Sunday so I recommend checking that out on YouTube under climate chat Dan Miller uh and I believe it's the the topic is |
| 1:38:05 | amach tipping points and he has interviews quite a world expert on amach where he estimates 30 years plus or minus 10 years perhaps for the amach um catastrophe to occur and once it does shift over um I believe STL way back in the identified the bability of the amach and the claim is by the go sorry yeah yeah the m m meridional overturning circulation yeah go on exactly and um the uh the challenge is once it does flip over it's highly hysteretic which means that it could likely take centuries to get back into a |
| 1:38:45 | pre-industrial state so uh in this case uh one stitch in time saves nine but uh to me it was very sobering to realize that here's this profound Tipping Point that's not broadly accepted by the ipcc or others who claim there are no tipping points in in a climate system well here's one and you know it's it's it's the grandmother of all tipping points well it's probably right up there with what was the name of the guy again well the interviewer is Dan Miller he's quite a climate um expert himself |
| 1:39:18 | is it lindom or something Lind Strom it's a very difficult European name I think it's Norwegian it's they did a paper recently um that's right it's a recent paper and I do recommend the YouTube as a good advertisement for the technical paper yeah and just just look for climate chat amach Dan Miller that'll find it on YouTube thanks Bri thank you thank you very much okay um just to say John I approached um another meteorologist um um Jim Haywood exitor um and said um it's urgent to call the Arctic and he |
| 1:40:01 | said you know you want to be cooling the whole lot really um it needs to be brought down uh you know in this Al together um rather than in the sort of lumpy way so and there's also you could say a tipping element in in the tropical oceans because there's more and more water vapor and the more water vapor you get in the air that that you know that makes a tipping element as well because it it then attracts more heat from the Sun and this is why they're talking about the oceans boiling away eventually |
| 1:40:32 | you know if it's we completely fail um so so I I I don't I'm not rejecting what you're saying about the the Arctic there is an argument for doing it all all all together yeah actually John nisson has a point though and that is if you take the Heat if you radiate the heat into space near the poles one way or another you'll increase that gradient thermal gradient which could actually facilitate convective and advective heat flow towards the poles so I think you know I would not be surprised if in a |
| 1:41:08 | pre-industrial condition there was more heat advection to the poles because when you're in the severe interglacials or an ice free Planet the thermal gradient drops so much that there's very little heat transfer yeah so in many ways you can facilitate the polar heat sink to space then you would also facilitate um uh heat fluxes from lower latitudes to higher latitudes yeah yeah good we could we could go on anybody that's that's needs to go we've had it more we've had 90 we've had a 100 minutes so I'll let you |
| 1:41:42 | you know we let you say goodbye and and we'll say until next time but um so I'm not shoving I'm not Che anybody away I'm just saying thank you we'll see you in two weeks time um and um yeah so and then so anyone who remains um I'm going to actually switch was there something el else you wanted to say that's people might want to review John oh yeah just comment you know provide comments on why you disagree with what I'm not disagreeing I'd love yeah go on yeah um I I I I set out my hopes for 2024 and I |
| 1:42:20 | would like to know what it was I disagreed with what are the what are the problems with what what I'm saying or or can we all agree it well I think I just saying doesn't have to be one thing it look at and I'm all for it uh part of our our proposal is fix wi uavs putting aerosol right over huge ice sheets like Greenland um to make uh Haze or brighten clouds over Greenland to Shield them in the summer months protect the ice melt during the summer months um so I'm I'm absolutely all for that not against it John yeah so |
| 1:43:02 | I I I think we can agree to that we need quite a lot of parallel projects going and you know Brew is uh brilliant trying to trying to put pounds Shillings and Pence as one would say in the olden days on to things dollars I yeah put your money money where your mouth this sort of thing that's right yeah well well calculate the cost of not not doing things as well as doing them yeah you know what are what are the risks that we're putting our children and grandchildren in by by not applying SRM now yeah that's important yeah okay I'm |
| 1:43:47 | G to switch off the |