| (Click on a 'Start Time' to view the video) |
| 00:01 | the history of Russia after 1917 is traditionally written as the rise of the Communist party and its entrenchment in power throughout the 20th century but is this story missing a key piece of the equation Yuri felinski and Vladimir poov have written a stunning book that benefits from the Trove of new historical sources available from inside the Russian secret Services it retells the familiar story from an entirely New Angle starting with the pivotal role of Felix jinsky the leader of the Communist Secret Service the czecher it then |
| 00:41 | traces the intense and bitter struggles of the czecher to rest State control from the Communist party with the presidency of Vladimir Putin in 1999 jasinski's ultimate goal finally came to fruition it explains why modern Russia has State without ideology is the world's only Mafia State programmed to Forever extort pillage and loot its people and the world welcome to Silicon curtain please like And subscribe to help new people find the incredible speakers that we feature and of course if you enjoy the content do please |
| 01:23 | consider supporting us by becoming a patron or buy me a coffee Dr Yuri felinski is a prominent author historian and journalist and he's also an expert on Russia and the former Soviet Union he's appeared in print TV and radio interviews worldwide and is widely known as co-author of the book blowing up Russia with Alexander Lena a former lieutenant colonel in the FSB who was poisoned with radioactive polonium in London in 2006 your book is incredibly fascinating we could probably record several hours of conversation about it but let's jump |
| 02:04 | into one of the assertions made there and that is that the amalgamation of criminality and politics uh that has been applied to Stalin but equally this Fusion of those two things that could equally apply to Putin as well couldn't it well uh yes of course all the uh Putin is not there for many reasons um Stalin existed uh with the closed borders the Soviet Union never had open borders and there was no immigration uh the Soviet Union of course never had market economy uh Putin created a system and I have to say that I see Putin as a kind |
| 02:49 | of collective leadership so it's a collective Putin but this uh Putin created a system when Russia exists with open borders and with market economy it has certain pluses and has certain minuses the major plus is of course if you compare the the style of Putin let's call it this way to style of Stalin that Putin doesn't have to kill his enemies in in milons like Stalin did because again borders are open and those who are unhappy with what they see in Russia uh are immigrating and the amount of those |
| 03:32 | people since 2000 is is actually huge and I have to say that I I wasn't Europe for for you know for several months now for like three months and I was visiting different cities uh warso Istanbul uhi uh vus uh in all those cities the main language on this Street beside the native one is Russia these are those people who left Russia because of war in Ukraine because the main way for this immigration of course happened after February of 22 and uh well there are some people from Belarus some from Ukraine but mainly these are Russians from Russia |
| 04:23 | from different cities from Central cities from small cities young people these people will escaping the war but this is the difference between Stalin's Soviet Union and Putin's Russia uh only those people who sincerely well sincerely might be wrong words who one way or another either do not care or support the war are left in in Russia if we mean uh if you talk about uh you know Young Generation right which is actively participating in in life and business and Bo as well uh those who are unhappy are left uh that's why it's easy for Putin |
| 05:10 | because he doesn't have to deal with opposition uh well some people are in prison uh but we have to agree that this is comparatively small number of people if we compare Putin to to Stalin right and again Russia is a country which historic Al loses millions of people during any major development right either Civil War or war or purges or government Terror so Putin is not there yet and let's hope he would not have a chance to approach uh Stalin's uh you know very but uh as we remember he promised to be be president of Russia |
| 06:01 | until 36 and if this promise would be kept then he would rule Russia longer than Stalin that of course is uh must be a concern to a great many people uh given the rapid pace of development certainly the last two years and the authoritarian slide when Putin came in and this is a phrase I've often puzzled about uh you know whether it was um a boast on his part or a form of joke but there was this event wasn't there uh early in his regime where he announced to a closed group of FSB colleagues that a group of |
| 06:44 | officers FSB officers working undercover within the government had fulfilled its task um what do you know about that and and how Sincere was this is this a real plot was it a joke was it was it him boasting what do you how do you interpret that well this was said on 20th of December 1999 Putin was still prime minister ironically this was just you know 11 days before yelson would resign and make Putin uh effectively acting president of the Russian Federation and uh here here's the story uh Putin of course was a lucky |
| 07:28 | one uh what I mean by this is the following yelson was put in a position by by 1999 when everything around him was so much controlled by the FSB but that is it was actually the FSB who would choosing who was choosing the next president of Russia and they offered uh three choices to to yelon who knows maybe they had a fifth fourth and fifth candidates we just not know the first one was primov former director of svr foreign intelligence service the second one was H stasan former head of the FSB those days the the title was FS car |
| 08:17 | Federal Security cont intelligence something like this and yelon was not happy with primac and with stasan the thir Choice was Putin and that's what yelon liked uh we do not really know what he liked uh what he saw in in Putin this was obviously a terrible mistake which he made as a state leader the question is whether yelon had choice and probably he didn't because once again uh I think the FSB was in control you know from August 91 even when they failed to take power on the on behalf of K be this was Vladimir |
| 09:09 | kov but at the same time this was a very complicated operation one group of kij officers were trying to take power through b and they failed and another group of KB officers uh was already positioned around all major police itical leaders of what people were H in Democratic Russia there was kov and Z of the future head of security of Putin placed near yelin Vladimir Putin was placed near subak the the future murderer of Alexandra Lan Andre ly was in charge of security of first Democratic prime minister yor RAR Etc |
| 10:01 | you could look at any structure any business structure you will see major FSB officers on the level of Kels or generals now this was happening because during the androp of time they developed a very interesting system it's it was called officers of active resolve so instead of instead of uh you know sending officers for res or actually F them who knows they they send them to work within Civil Service of the society right within civil sector of the society as if you are sending a spy abroad you know those |
| 10:48 | spies Russian spies famous Soviet spies who are working abroad as IL legals that's what they started to do with KB officers and oper atives inside the Soviet Union now I I remember my uh last interview with Al kugan KB former KB General who softly defected uh to to to the United States and lives in Washington DC and he kind of said uh that you know the kji was the largest uh special service in the world with the largest budget uh forces secret services in the world that's what we are dealing with uh we still do not know what the |
| 11:39 | budget of this organization is we still do not know how many people work for this organization it's it's a huge organization the the fs fso structure for example Federal uh security uh service which guards uh leadership of the Russian Federation has 40,000 people for example right so it's it's a huge organization and after 20 years of of power now they sincerely believe that they are russan L FSB and Russia are kind of uh you know equal partners own in the state right and so when Putin was saying that uh he was not |
| 12:30 | joking Al although he smiled and everybody in the room smiled and kind of laughed and uploaded but that's precisely uh how this was done this was those illegals who was sent to serve as presidents of banks vice presidents of banks vice presidents of companies uh deputies of editors of major TV channels and major newspapers and yes some of them were sent to serve as president of Russia that's precisely how this was and that's precisely how Putin looks at himself as as the officer of active reserve uh sent to work as President of |
| 13:19 | Russia and of course the Orthodox Church which under Putin has dramatically increased its power control and resources that's another branch of the state which my standing is is is deeply penetrated at least the hierarchy is uh almost indistinguishable from again this FSB nomenclature well again the the church always was a tool of the the Russian State security apparates always and uh I actually in the book I published the list of the the uh top officials of the Russian Church who who are basically agents of the KB right who |
| 14:05 | were recruited by by KB and again we have to understand that there are certain rules and the major rule is that you are not allowed to be promoted uh whether within the church or within the the academy or within the TV channel or within the newspaper uh unless unless un uh you you agreed to cooperate with the FSB so in addition to officers who who serve openly and officers of active reserve we also have uh unknown amount of agents and these are people recruited by the KGB as agents and you you could look at any biography of quote unquote |
| 14:59 | successful or well-known Russian you know citizens or Soviet citizen almost all of them agreed to work for for KGB and this was the the reason why they were allowed to proceed with the care and in your book you trace the history and I believe this is the first major historical study that actually traces the uh evolution of the uh secret Services all the way from the Checker through to uh ogu nkvd KGB and FSB um of course the acronyms the names change sometimes the structures change but what Remains the Same what is it in terms of |
| 15:44 | the training the culture the objectives um and even the values that uh are common or what you can see as a commonality throughout uh you know from the Inception through to the present day well the the uh the FSB uh was the State security was created on 20th of December 19 17 very soon uh after balik took power in uh Pittsburg uh now uh from the point of view of the Communist party this was a very useful tool to fight against enemies and everybody else actually was the enemy the B party was a very small political group and all those |
| 16:33 | people around them were internal enemies first of all and then of course later foreign enemies so the Communist Party needed the the State security but at the same time State security very early started to think about taking political control of the State uh kind of uh not not necessarily replacing the Communist party but uh actually commanded the Communist party and uh this was realized very quickly within the Communist party and uh everything what we know about history of the Soviet Union we have to see through |
| 17:19 | this uh this uh you know light right the the bloody struggle uh between the Communist party and the State security and when I say that this was Bloody struggle uh I mean this is this was really bloody struggle we are talking about dozens of thousands of people maybe even hundreds of thousands of people executed as a result of this struggle the last executions uh were conducted in 1956 not in 1937 not in 19 1953 until Stalin's death right but in 1956 until 1956 the Communist party still was executing high ranking officers of the State security |
| 18:14 | that's how dangerous they were for for the ruling Communist party so we have to imagine uh two things that the the greatest enemy of the FSB former KP former what in there Etc were not Nazis or cont revolutionaries or dissidents or those or white army officers the main main enemy of the Russian State security Soviet state security was the Communist Party of the Soviet Union that's why uh it was actually to to the Great Joy uh in August of 91 they manage finally to end the Monopoly of the Communist Party the political Monopoly |
| 19:12 | of the Communist party and started to create a system when they would rule the country without any political control because again uh from political point of view during the Soviet years the KGB of course was very powerful but KGB existed under strict political control of Soviet Soviet Communist party and since they knew that Communist Party actually you know from time to time were executing them by by hundreds I mean dozens or thousands right they were actually afraid of them so uh since August of 91 the KB exists |
| 19:55 | without any political control and this is a major the problem of course which we are facing now because we actually do not have people with whom we need to to negotiate there is no political wing of those people who are R in Russia now it's like when we deal with terrorists for example right we always and you know this in Britain quite well when you were dealing with for example um Irish terorism right uh you always were looking for a political wing of the you know Irish Republican movement right because this at least what people |
| 20:39 | hopefully with whom you would be able to negotiate this is the problem which we have in Russia now there is no political win with whom we could negotiate about uh for example peace generally and precisely peace in Ukraine but but again this is a unique situation this is the first time in world's history I'm sure when the the State security runs the country and it's not a just a country it's a huge one and it's a nuclear one and that's where the problem uh actually starts and and ends that's why it's a |
| 21:20 | very complicated problem and as we went into the 1960s and then 1970s and we got into the periods of zust uh the sort of um stagnation and B another Force emerged which was the criminal classes the VOR of zakona um which is the sort of oil in the machine that just allowed the machine to keep going as it were um what relations did the criminal classes have with the FSB um and how has that evolved through the '90s into the current situation well uh first we have to understand and I know that it's difficult to believe because usually |
| 22:08 | when people hear this they would say well I mean that's impossible do you really suggest that everything what was happening in the Soviet Union was under the control of of the KGB but basically the answer is yes and I could give you a couple examples all national movements for example uh all fascist movements for example which started to appear in the Soviet Union in the late uh 60s 70s uh 80s were indeed organized by the KB not just allowed to exist but actually there were those people who organized those |
| 22:59 | movements uh the same uh is true about criminal World well criminal world of course existed but the organized crime was always under control of the uh KB and at one point uh during '90s of course when the Soviet Union collapsed when Market of eony uh started to appear when a lot of money appear in circulation yes of course this was a period when many things went out of control and criminal world you know started to grow and increased dramatically and all those where Z right uh became kind of legendary figures you know portrayed by |
| 23:50 | movies and books but then at some point they kind of disappear and the reason why they disappeared is because the the KGB the FSB uh finally managed to take this situation entirely under control so many of them we have to say many of them were cooperating with with the FSB uh prior to this uh full control or destruction many of them were recruited by the FSB many of them were used by the FSB for their operations but at the end it's not that they like disappeared but yes they disappeared but they disappeared because |
| 24:33 | the FSB finally took everything under their own control under their own roof and they wouldn't need those criminals anymore because they they were not going to to share power and to share money and to share businesses with those criminals as well they they need everything for themselves and again if you look at Russian economy now it's firmly controlled by the state and the state again is firmly controlled by the FSB and there are no political parties this is the only example which we see in the world there are political parties which |
| 25:20 | exist but they do not fight for power they do not try to to take power in in Russia um that's again this is another problem because uh there is no partner for negotiations and when we discuss if Putin is going to stay as a president or if he would leave as a president the the problem is that there is really no one around because all those people who go around they will with time destroyed or expelled or to prison or some of them were killed like Boris n so that's why we see this field where the only person who is standing is is |
| 26:04 | Putin and this I think is is something that is that is poorly understood because you know in the west a lot of commentators will try to impose our framework and our values and our institutions and try to interpret Russia through those so when they see figures who are nominally liberal um still in in some respects on the media and so on I'm thinking here particularly of CA sachu and others if we go by your theory here then if all institutions are penetrated and if someone is actually still allowed to speak in public and is still |
| 26:44 | interviewed by you know logical deduction they must have made an accommodation with the FSB so if Russia does have let's say a future liberal leader out of the people who haven't fled the country or are in prison um that probably is a continuation of the same puppet figures uh even if superficially uh they were liberal well I think there there are uh differences right I mean we are talking about a system where a former director of the FSB uh became the president and uh uh let's say for the sake of discussion |
| 27:33 | that somebody who is not a member of the FSB who never served for the FSB would become a president of Russia uh and at the same time would keep the FSB as it is now would this change uh something I think the answer is yes yes I think the answer is yes I think there is a great difference uh between a president who who came from the FSB and a president who is not from the FSB even if he's a terrible person or or whatever right but uh but talking about uh people like s sachak right she participated I mean she was used by |
| 28:23 | whatever Putin this is not a question right she participated in those elections uh as as if she's a candidate and this was under the agreement with Putin uh is she FSB agent well at least she's Putin's agent right he recruited her he recruited her to work for him right and that's that's what she does so and there are a lot of uh FSB uh agents right who who who exist and who function in Russia today and they're not FSB officers but they are people who recruited uh by the FSB or personally by |
| 29:11 | Putin because I ironically that's what uh Putin is doing when he's talking to people he's not just talking to people he's recruiting them this relates to everybody including State leaders and by the way some recruitments uh you know were very successful for for Putin and know we could name several people whom he definitely recruited uh so that's but the the uh the nature of of this structure is that unless you are member of them or recruited for them by them uh you're the enemy and that's that's what is |
| 29:58 | important to to understand right uh you you either with them or you are against them this is the old Soviet saying of course but but in contemporary Russia it has a very you know practical real meaning and there's a deep uh paranoia that underpins that if we go back to the origins of the KGB is that more likely to come come from the character of the Bolsheviks as you know terrorists bank robbers Etc um an extremely paranoic group you know suspicious of other socialist organizations um even Other Extreme groups |
| 30:46 | or is the character of Phil Felix jinsky um more important where where where does this sort of culture of uh paranoia control Power and all things you've described come from well again we are talking initially about a very small group of people right uh even within the Russian Social Democratic movement bolik vo minority extreme minority and one of the reasons they WN because everyone was refusing to believe that they have chance to to to survive and to stay in power and this was one of the reason why no one actually was kind of fighting |
| 31:30 | them in the beginning because again no one believed that they would able to survive politically but uh but they W unfortunately and because they were extremists and they were extremist even within the Russian Social Democratic movement or within the international Social Democratic movement uh they they realize very quickly you literally the next week after they took power that the only way for them to survive uh is to to kill opponents really to kill opponent so that's that's how it's all started and |
| 32:12 | that's how it continues continued and this uh never stopped again it stopped in 1956 uh but uh the parano again they were killing CH as well right and we see those examples when the the State security would execute party inur people and party apparatus would execute State security so well yes you would become of course slightly paranoid if you live uh by decade after decade if you live in a country in a society where no one dies uh by natural death right then everybody is killed now if you multiply it you |
| 33:04 | know the amount of people living in Russia you will realize that there is well there is a Russian kind of joke unfortunately a black joke that half of the country was in camps and another camps half of the country was guarding them right that's that's precisely how this looked from outside and you will not find a family in Russia which uh survived the the either purchas purchases or or the war or or or or state Terror but uh because of this and this is again this has certain reflection in today's Russia |
| 33:50 | the the population is very cynical and if the question is why uh sof chak is doing what she's doing is because she's uh so cynical that she doesn't really care I mean she has her agenda like I don't know to to earn money or whatever or become famous but uh she has no morals she has no principles but that's how the the entire Soviet Union was leaving and was surviving those who survived because millions of people uh didn't right and that's why this is the answer why Russians are accepting the fate of going |
| 34:34 | into the army to fight against Ukraine with understanding that might that might be killed because that's precisely again how they parents were living and how the grandparents were living no one was dying by natural death in the Soviet Union almost uh everybody you know had a good chance to be killed in the process of you know s to the state right what is also very traditional in in Russia you know to be killed or to die in a course of serving to the state because that's the the major the major achievement right to to |
| 35:13 | serve to the state and again this probably is the only country well maybe I'm wrong but this might be the only country where the phrase in in the interest of the state are explain uh explains like everything I mean why do you do this right why do you take my horse well in the interest of the state why do you take my car why you kill me in the interest of the State uh you probably would not find another country where people would accept this explanation and and the Soviet Union and today's Russia it's kind of normally |
| 35:55 | accepted and you've said that Putin's regime is economical with its Terror it doesn't need to employ the mass indiscriminate techniques of Stalin not yet but if we look at the occupied territories in Crimea if we look at the scale the brutality even dare I say it the perversion behind the torture and coercion that's going on in the occupied territories could we describe those areas as Neo stalinist well yes of course not in terms of amount people to to to be killed right but uh but in many ways |
| 36:40 | what we see in Ukraine the behavior of the Russian army uh is uh a kind of reflection of the life which people leave uh the the majority of those people they are probably not from Central cities of mosow there are from you know far away cities where the nothing is happening there is no life there there is no economy there there is no life there and uh it's all very brutal and uh the traditionally the Russian army I have to say Soviet Army now the Russian army doesn't make any difference uh and this is kind of unusual for armies uh |
| 37:25 | between military personnel and the civilians uh o of the opposite side right so for for a Russian soldier uh to kill a Ukrainian civilian uh or or to kill a Ukrainian uh Soldier is the same I mean you just you just kill everybody right that's that's why we see uh unusual for Europeans or Americans brutality because that's how the the Russian army always would behave them itself everybody is the enemy uh we are hated everybody is the enemy we are like like killing everybody uh everything was was life and and kicking and |
| 38:18 | [Music] uh again unfortunately no one was ever punished in the Soviet Union I think for killing civilians I mean this was not happening during the second world war and I'm sure this was not happening during all other conflicts the conflicts which Russia had uh recently like in in ch during the first CH war and second CH War they were killing civilians over sometimes it's true it was difficult to distinguish armed Ian uh who is like a separatist of partisan from from from a peaceful civilian who is a chesan but |
| 39:08 | there was no distinction so again it's what what we see it's kind of normal because for Russia because all those soldiers and officers they know that there is no way they going to be punished for this because this is not a crime for them this is not a crime this is like a normal behavior to kill the enemy uh on you know in in the territory where where you are fighting for for the state of Russia against another country which well happen to be Ukraine it might be any other country right uh which is an enemy who has to be |
| 39:52 | destroyed and that's uh very sobering if you think that uh you know the same thing would happen whether they were in Germany Holland the baltics Poland wherever they end up the the same attitude would would still stand and the role of the FSB is also prominent of this war so in Stalin's time uh we certainly all know the stories uh that there was when the order was given for No Retreat you knew that there would be guns in front of you there would also be guns behind you uh that secret Services were there to take |
| 40:28 | out anybody um that didn't move forward and and follow those orders um there are of course uh you know an anecdotal evidence that um the same thing is happening that there are KGB units um embedded within the Russian army in Ukraine uh not just to set up torture centers we'll come up to that in a minute but to terrorize uh their own troops as well well again this is partially the reflection of Cruelty of the Russian society and of Russian state of mind right because uh indeed the the the FSB as as a as an |
| 41:14 | institution uh would uh employ uh certain people who are ready to kill if necessary uh who of course uh never trained to build and who are only trained to destroy and this is I think is the answer to to to many questions right uh the the to destroy for them is normal and uh even uh political approach of the Russian government or political goal or agenda of the Russian government is to destroy Ukraine it's again it's very uh interesting because if if you think about this you you shouldn't actually |
| 42:08 | achieve any political goals with a complete destruction of the state which you try to occupy um Stalin for example had the idea to take Europe but but he never had the idea to destroy Europe I have to say and there is a famous story about Stalin making decision whether there the Soviet Army should have you know powerful bers and actually he went against this decision because his idea was to take not to destroy uh if we look at the mythology of the Russian army in Ukraine what they are doing their idea is to destroy not to take and this is like |
| 43:00 | more like a German idea and indeed P Putin actually took many things from from Hitler uh well probably because he was serving in Germany but um but that's what they doing they are destroying uh they destroying and they they are they invade with the intention to destroy not with the intention to to to take control for thing and of course it's concerning uh one thing you mentioned there is that no one in Russia has ever been put on trial for war crimes not for any of the wars um from uh you know the 19 10s uh and the revolution uh all the |
| 43:50 | way up to the present of course the allies of Ukraine are and Ukraine even more so are pinning hopes on a just peace and a a stable just piece for them includes Justice for the victims um how realistic is it that that can ever be achieved and is it still a worthwhile process for Ukraine to try uh Russian criminals in absentia well I would say that at this point this is probably our smallest problem uh because this comes uh usually after Victory after Victory the issue of war criminals and reparations usually is |
| 44:43 | discussed so we we are not there yet uh I think uh there will be many tribunals formed after this war is over but by the way I'm still nervous about the the course of this War I do not believe that what we see now is the end of the problems I do not think that this war will stay within the borders of Ukraine I think that the terrorist act which we have seen in on 7th of October against Israel is a kind of [Music] General collapse of the peace in Europe and I think this events are connected uh I I think this was happening because |
| 45:38 | Russia actually is using many players like North Korea and like Iran uh to to uh you know to damage the stability uh in Europe and in Asia uh and I think we will see continuation of this policy and this is extremely dangerous because all these countries like Iran like North Korea they are also trying to become nuclear powers and uh I think they have with the help of Russia they have you know brilant chance to succeed uh we've seen also Russia moving nuclear weapons to Belarus and this creates a real danger |
| 46:30 | for Europe first of all for Eastern Europe so we we actually see after like what 600 or one and a half year more than a war in Ukraine we actually see further escalation of the conflict we we do not really see any uh real hopes uh and many politicians were hoping for this that Russia will will get tired of the war and somehow we would understand that this was a mistake to invade Ukraine I do not there was a period when we were hoping that well Russia will see now that Ukraine is fighting that the West is helping there is no quick |
| 47:20 | victory for Russia they should change the behavior this is not happen unfortunately right and indeed uh we see some indication that this is going to escalate and I uh actually in introduced the termine World War I uh in relation to to events which started to develop uh in March of 1914 I in my book uh World War I the battle for Ukraine was published first in in 19 in 2012 15 soon after Russian invasion of Crimea but now we hear more and more politicians and uh military leaders uh especially former military leaders who |
| 48:12 | are not under obligations to to sit quietly now uh who are who are saying that this third world war is is a real possibility and and that's why again that's why it was extremely important in the very beginning when this war just started on 24th of February 22 you know to to try to to win this war very quickly uh before the crime is committed before actually the was started before a lot of uh people uh were killed uh now in in many ways there is no way back you know you ukrainians cannot just go back after what was done to them uh you |
| 49:03 | know Europe cannot go back um ironically even Putin cannot go back because he he rebuild the the entire country for this war now and to stop this war for him uh is probably impossible and again if we would deal with a dictatorship like look lukashenka kind you know then we would have a hope that as soon as Putin is gone or dies or whatever you know Russia would change behavior and its policy and its approach to the world but if I'm right and I'm afraid that I'm right and if I'm right and Putin is running Russia not as |
| 49:49 | a dictator but as a representativ of the State security then actually the B simply would replace him with another person from the FSB uh By the way when Dimitri pesov recently several days ago was asked a question who would run Russia in in 24 uh he replied well this is going to be Putin or somebody like Putin that's precisely the problem right because uh it's not enough just to take down Putin or replace him with somebody this somebody doesn't have to be like Putin if it's somebody like Putin we're not |
| 50:38 | actually uh achieving anything and of course as soon as Putin either physically or mentally weakens um that's one thing that cannot be tolerated is is weakness and he would be gone so you've described earlier that that that that no one dies in their beds and barrier you know I I knew quite a lot about the story around barrier but what I had never read before was the role of Felix jinsky in the decline of Lenin possibly even the assassination of him um and the replacement by Stalin that is an extraordinary episode but |
| 51:19 | what does that tell us perhaps about Putin's demise it's not going to come from a popular Uprising it's not going to come from Russia being occupied by Ukraine and the Western Powers um and it's it's not going to come from the political or oligarch class but might it come from the FSB or a click within the FSB who see him as no longer useful or fulfilling uh the role as that representative and as you say sweep him aside and replace him How likely is that given the history of assassination and |
| 51:55 | replacement of leaders in the past well I think this is not a a major deal uh to to see Putin replaced by somebody uh as a result of certain uh you know Revolt or could it within the FSB but he he the problem here's the problem uh this was a of course a collective decision to invade Ukraine and Putin actually was saying this after the invasion of 20 2014 he was saying that this decision was made by Putin parip and bortnikov bortnikov is of course current director of the FSB and he said the same about the decision to |
| 52:47 | invade in 202 that this was a decision you know agreed uh signed by by Putin partnership and bortnikov uh are they happy with the result well I sincerely believe that you would not find a single person who had something to do with Ru in contemporary Russia on different levels and different categories who would be happy with the result after one and a half years of war because whatever Russia had in mind everything went wrong and uh you know the idea was that no one would join NATO anymore indeed Finland and Sweden did the idea was that |
| 53:40 | Ukraine would be taken in a week or in a month and as we know this didn't happen the idea was that Russian language would become you know main language for for Ukraine again indeed even Russians in Ukraine today refuse to to to speak Russian uh the idea was that Russia will be respected and Russia is hated internationally the idea was that Russian people abroad would feel you know as if they home indeed they they became refugees uh and immigrants in in Europe and this is not the same as before the war when where they were com |
| 54:26 | and as Rich tourists so whatever plans existed for for Putin you know everything went wrong so I I suppose everyone has to be unhappy with the result of this particular military campaign uh does this mean that they are ready to like kill Putin and replace him well probably not because with the experience of purchases in in Russia in the Soviet Union during this period of 1918 to 1956 they probably do not want to start to execute themselves because if they start to execute you know their own colleagues then this would mean that |
| 55:12 | they might be executed as well uh now in in a normal situation we we would think that there might be a k like similar to August 91 for example except we now know that it didn't work it didn't work in August of 91 when kov the the chairman of the KB was trying to take power it didn't happen in October of 93 when a Russian Pro communist and infiltrated by the KB Duma was trying to take Y and down it didn't work in March of 96 when Kaku was trying to popone elections and through this take to take yelon down and replace |
| 56:01 | him with another you know politician close to him and the only way which worked was 2,000 because this was manipulation of constitution this was technically speaking illegally yelon resign before his term just to clear the way for for Putin but technically speaking this was legal and I think all those people who are thinking about taking Putin down or that it would be you know great to take him down uh sincerely do not know how to do this legally because it's not like P everybody everybody is mentioning P like |
| 56:46 | person number two and I would agree that he might be his person number two politician number two lead number two but it's not like patv uh who is in charge of uh you know Security Council of the Russian Federation could uh go to to to TV studio and say look guys you know we we just uh you know take took Putin down and now I will be your new president this is not going to work it's completely illegal and it's not going to work uh the only legal way was the way Putin became president but this means that you need to to get his |
| 57:32 | agreement to replace current prime minister with somebody else whom you would like to install as the next president because that's this is the only legal way Ironically in Russia there is no other way to replace the president either through elections of course all through this kind of manipulation we will see what's going to happen I am sure that if Putin unless Putin resigns on the 31st of December as yelton did I think we will see him as the next uh President of Russia in 24 that that of course seems quite quite |
| 58:12 | unlikely and um going back to 91 um even yelson I remember some people at the time you know sitting and drinking and talking to some people and again the Western press get very worked up on the superficialities of events and of course there was a certain degree of popular protest um when yelton still on the tank and all the rest of it uh and uh that process eventually led to him leading but I do remember speaking to people at the time even as they were clearing away the barricades and the overturn trams in St Petersburg which was still there on |
| 58:50 | my first trip to to Russia and some people said well yes there were crowds yes there were victims and yes there was a lot of Bravery but actually behind the scenes uh some people even then were convinced that that that itself was a um a stage managed a highly stag managed event um one must assume with a a click or a a certain wing of the KGB behind it ensuring its success um do we do we know much about U the uh you know people who guided uh that yelton Revolution well the as a as I mentioned the the KB actually conducted the |
| 59:37 | operation uh in in in two stages right the first attempt was to to take gacho down and you know through Kar basically declare state of emergency and you know declare that now power would belong to a committee which is headed by K right uh it didn't work and uh the the I think the risk that this W Network was very high and for this particular reason there was the the second uh you know possibility right or the second uh the second case was created then yes uh the KGB at least would get rid of the Monopoly of the Communist party and this |
| 1:00:32 | was the major goal of the KB because again this was the major enemy of KB and because now after 91 uh kjb had a chance to regroup uh to take power and to run Russia without any political control and that's precisely what happened by December of 20 thousand now uh again the the KB went through two more attempts right of 93 and 96 to take power through a different kind of good task and again it didn't work right but historically speaking uh they will managed to regroup and take power in a huge country uh in 9 years and and this is |
| 1:01:23 | absolutely brilliant result I mean the the the entire country was taken under control uh after 9 years of a kind of struggle to take it under control but uh but again we have to understand that the level of infiltration of KB operatives into everything we know and everything we see and everything we use and everything we read and everything we hear uh is unbelievably high in uh for example I give you a good example even before August 91 before the Soviet Union collapse the KB created courses for the officers instructing them how to |
| 1:02:18 | participate in Duma elections the parliament elections of of different levels right because there was Central Doom of course there were Regional doomers there were a lot of them and and uh and they did and 60% of those who participated won all right and I believe the figure was like 5,600 something all right that's how many KB officers became uh deputies of local and Central parliaments so uh they were preparing for this uh you know serious you know serious deal serious operation to take power in Russia they |
| 1:03:08 | were positioning themselves and that's why in when Putin became president in 2000 in a matter of literally days he took the entire Russia under the control of the FSB because all those off were already positioned they were already there they were already there this is probably this is definitely the last uh question because you've been extremely generous with your time and this is the one which which I think a lot of people are grappling with I've just read hov's book um kak dra how to kill a dragon um and there's a lot of |
| 1:03:48 | stuff in there but it doesn't I think address the central question which is how do you rip out root and Branch such an organization that has penetrated every institution uh throughout the country and every structure including the media and everything else um it seems to me that the idea of uh the Empire the Russian Empire um the economic system as it currently exists the vertical of power the FSB everything is intertwined and you cannot destroy the one without actually taking apart everything so what is the solution if there is a |
| 1:04:32 | solution and does it involve the complete fragmentation of Russia if there's to be any chance of destroying the power of uh the secret State uh not of Russia of course and this is very important I think uh first of all it's important to understand what the problem is the problem of Russia is not Russia the problem of Russia are not Russians the problem of Russia is the FSB which controls the state and uh yes I think that's why uh you know nothing good was happening to Russia after 1991 because no one addressed this problem and again |
| 1:05:24 | the were a lot of forces you know probably you know killing and banning all attempts to to address this problem but the main problem of post Soviet Russia is that both the Communist party and the KGB were never actually put on trial for crimes committed against Russian people during this period of 1917 to 1919 now uh if uh if you pretend that the problem is not the FSB but you know unlike your Russian history right uh then uh you would not be able to to to change anything and I have to tell you that every time I read a book or read an |
| 1:06:23 | article or listen to to person who is talking about Russian problems if I do not hear the word ofsp and trust me it happens very very often and I do not mean to say that the person would claim well the FSB is the greatest problem of Russia but if I just do not see the word ever mentioned I just think that that particular author or lecture or journalist U is either work for the FSB or doesn't really understand what's happening in in Russia right because this is the main problem this is the main problem and uh if we are trying to |
| 1:07:14 | rebuild Russia reform Russia change Russia I mean it's like in post second world War Germany in 1945 right tried to rebuild Germany and leave intact G I mean this is this is just impossible thing to do right so if you if you do not mention the FSB if you do not touch the FSB nothing could be changed in in in Russia so you cannot just uh take down Putin and replace him with the civilian if you leave if you leave this institution alive uh this institution will come back I have to say this is the the oldest institution in contemporary |
| 1:08:10 | Russia this is the only institution which survives the collapse of the Soviet Union this is a very powerful structure where we have 100 thousand of people working and they committed they are committed to to rule they are committed to run this country they are committed to take control of the world and if if you think that this is like kind of crazy idea think about the theory of World Revolution this was crazy idea as well and nevertheless by 1945 Stalin took control of half of Europe yes this was not the entire |
| 1:08:51 | Europe as they were planning initially but this was you know a good chunk of Europe so uh we we are facing similar problem again it's this problem is similar to to the World Revolution Theory Al the without ideological component or communist ideological component because from the point of view of KGB this was precisely what what prevented kjb from Victory right when all those old stupid communist uh sitting in in palbo created the idea of peaceful cooperation thinking that you're are not able to win nuclear war against the west |
| 1:09:35 | and that's where Putin is coming now saying oh wait wait a second we we we we know how to win nuclear W nuclear war against the West right so uh this is coming back to us in his SL this old danger right in his SL different form the only difference again major difference is that we live now in an area when in a period when nuclear weapons exist and that's create a real danger and that's what we are doing this and that clearly is heavily influencing uh decisions of US policy makers not to really take the gloves off and uh Supply |
| 1:10:20 | Ukraine for victory so it's uh it's a very disturbing situation speaking to you is always incredibly sobering Yuri but I think it's incredibly important for people to understand these ideas and to understand the role of the FSB in current Russia and its antecedants uh through Russian history the organizations that it's come from the paranoia the Ambitions uh and the desire to control thank you so much you've been incredibly generous with your time I know the audience are going to you for your time thank you so much |
| 1:10:53 | and I look forward to uh speaking again in in future thanks a lot |