Anti-Geoengineering bill passed in the state of Tennessee, USA (14 emails 9/27/2024 to 9/28/2024)
HPAC
Anti-Geoengineering bill passed in the state of Tennessee, USASep 27 2024 2:27AM - Alan Kerstein
Dear Ron,
In view of this development, it seems pertinent for me to elaborate on the following from an email I sent a few weeks ago:
[
The overarching reality is that, despite the necessary and laudable learned disputation over active cooling, in the end it will come down to a knife fight. “Out of the crooked timber of humanity, no straight thing was ever made.”
]
So here we are. The Tennessee legislation provides a good case study of how this knife fight might unfold. As in any case study, we might have various opinions about what it signifies and what to do about it. Here’s mine.
The acceptance or rejection of geoengineering will ultimately be decided in the forum of public opinion. The Tennessee legislation is a perfect illustration of the considerations that will influence the outcome. The pushback has to be pursued at more than one level. The HPAC level is the ‘laudable learned disputation’ that I mentioned. At another level, we can ask how the disreputable tactics and viewpoints reflected in the Tennessee legislation might be grist for a pushback by people who abhor such things and are therefore motivated to at least give geoengineering a fair hearing on the basis that anything that draws such disreputable opposition is more likely than not to be a good thing. This is a variant of ‘the enemy of the enemy is my friend,’ which boils down to an ad hominem argument about a particular group of geoengineering opponents, above and beyond more justifiable reasoning about the benefits and risks of geoengineering.
The responses I’ve received to such sentiments indicate that HPAC is not a group prepared to engage at this level. That’s fine and is probably for the best given the nature of the group, especially considering the distasteful compromises sometimes needed at this level of engagement. Nevertheless, I think that organized engagement of this sort will ultimately be needed to get geoengineering across the finish line, so I encourage people to be mindful of this and to think about how it might be pursued by some person or group in the future.
Alan
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Sep 27 2024 11:06AM - Robert Chris
On the basis of zero research or evidence, my gut feel is that this is a peculiarly US phenomenon. It isn't that there aren't crazies elsewhere, but you guys seem to have empowered them in a unique and frightening manner.
What's particularly frightening is that they seem to be in the ascendancy. How worried should we be?
Robert
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Sep 27 2024 11:46AM - Ron Baiman
Dear Colleagues,
Conspiracy Theorists and Vaccine Skeptics Have a New Target: Geoengineering: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/26/climate/geoengineering-conspiracy-theorists-skeptics.html?unlocked_article_code=1.N04.EL__.Y4a-SQnM_fYu&smid=url-share
This Bill that has reportedly just passed in Tennessee does not inspire hope for our species! Anti-Geoengineering sentiment has now apparently been linked up in come quarters with anti-vax, the "deep state" government conspiracy and chem-trails as I recall Brian and Manna Jo saying - but never thought it would get this far.
The article also notes that while the Environmental Defence Fund has come around to at least supporting geoengineering research, Friends of the Earth have not, as I recall confirming earlier intel that we have received. An FOE spokesperson is quoted in the article as saying that "it was unsettling to agree with groups that 'reflect a detachment from the truth'", which suggests that perhaps the FOE position could be changed by appealing to "the true" climate emergency that we are facing.
Best,
Ron
PS - It just so happens that I will probably be moving to Tennessee next year. I'm trying to strengthen my resolve to combat this by keeping in mind John Nissen, Andrew Lockley and many others of you as examples!
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Healthy Planet Action Coalition
Addressing the Urgent Need for Direct Climate Cooling: Rationale and Options
An Open Letter to the IMO Supporting Maritime Transport that Cools the Atmosphere While Preserving Air Quality Benefits
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Sep 27 2024 1:16PM - Tim Foresman
Dear Ron: Don't you remember the Scopes trial? A jurisprudence event that put Tennessee, Clarence Darrow, and William Jennings Bryan in the headlines. Be sure to have your eyes wide open if you venture to the great mockingbird state. Don't expect to change any minds.
Peace, Tim
Dr Tim Foresman
6219 Rockburn Hill Road
Elkridge, Maryland 21075
Office: 410-707-7352
www.earthparty.org
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Sep 27 2024 1:34PM - Ron Baiman
Oh G-D! Thanks for reminding me of this Tim.
I’m really going to have work on my “pessimism of the intellect, optimism of the will” efforts!
Best,
Ron
Sent from my iPhone
Sep 27 2024 1:50PM - Tom Goreau
They are against ALL forms of science or evidence-based decision making.
Sep 27 2024 2:27PM - you
I encourage people to be mindful of this and to think about how it might be pursued by some person or group in the future.
We are aligned on this. I believe we should all scroll through the Rolodex of our minds to identify friend and colleagues who could be won over and bridge our message to influential people within their networks.
I have formulated a strategy and am step-wise escalating a plan along those lines to try and remove obstructions by Michael Mann, Naomi Klein, Elizabeth Kolbert, Naomi Oreske and others through potential convert Bill McKibben. I email him and comment on his Substack blog judiciously as opportunities arise. Progress has been slow but steady and positive.
There are others like Bill who I believe are candidates to be our emissaries to those with the position, power, open minds and aptitude to influencer the public, decision makers, civic leaders, philanthropists and legislators.
I see it as a sort of “guerrilla” tactic.
Doug Grandt
Sent from my iPhone (audio texting)
Sep 27 2024 3:01PM - Tim Foresman
Kudos to the Luddites that walk among us.
Ms. Karen MacBeth (the festering former Rhode Island conspiracy lawmaker) isn’t wrong about her concerns to getting out the atmospheric ‘damn spots’ from airplane exhaust, aka jet trails. She is just aiming, ironically at the wrong damn spots. It is known that fossil fuels in the airplane fuel are helping to raising the atmospheric CO2 levels. How much? A worthy question. But most of that is invisible and more challenging to pander to conspiracy nuts. Covid anyone?
I wonder if Ms. MacBeth and her political conspiracy compatriots would like to impose real change by outlawing modern air travel? Probably not an easy sell with the obvious drawback on individuals’ lifestyles and freedoms. So, if we have to alter our lifestyles to reduce GHG pollution, most people are not going to participate. Transition will be multigenerational. We like freedom to travel, to drive, and maintain our homes at individual patriotic preference temperatures. Just don’t let science get in the way of decision making and political postering.
Ironically, at least to me as stimulated by Ron’s Tennessee journey note, an environment where Darwinism was dead for four decades, Mr. Scopes gave up promoting and teaching biology to become a petroleum chemical engineer. Another sellout?
Peace, Tim
6219 Rockburn Hill Road
Elkridge, Maryland 21075
Office: 410-707-7352
www.earthparty.org
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Sep 27 2024 4:50PM - Tom Goreau
The condensation trail Luddites already think geo-engineering is underway…….
Sep 27 2024 8:35PM - Dana Woods
Oh yeah, a female neighbor I'm friendly with is sure "they" are trying to poison us with chemtrails. She also thinks the Earth is flat and that noone has ever walked on the moon (really) Idk about her husband one way or the other but his main political issues is illegal immigrants even though he's a black man from Jamaica so...
I told her father and he said something to the effect of people from this town (a hamlet really) think what they think though idk what he thinks. I do live in a rural county (upstate NY ) which is considered blue but not that blue (ie voted for Dems in Presidential elections but our state reps are Republican)
In polls it's a pretty small number of Americans who believe in Chemtrails but the number of people who "have no opinion" or chose not to answer in surprisingly large
There's at least one published peer reviewed study where scientists set out to find if there are really chemtrails (or chemicals from them) or not and concluded that there are not
Sep 27 2024 11:09PM - Doug Grandt
Alan,
Sep 27 2024 11:38PM - Alan Kerstein
What you’re doing is so necessary and valuable Doug. Somehow your approach needs to be scaled so that the message eventually filters through to people like those Dana mentioned. It will require a large number of people who are willing and able to engage in this sort of activism. People like Bill are the intermediaries who need to be convinced that they should help get the ball rolling. It unnerves me that so much depends on the happenstance of when and how effectively this can be accomplished.
Alan
Sep 28 2024 3:20AM - Dana Woods
Alan and all
I seriously don't think people like my neighbor are going to change, but I also don't think they're very common either, at least not yet. I have COVID (and failed to get a booster /3rd vaccine because I basically forgot about it here in nowhere land) & have to care for goats too *but someone should look for those polls about chemtrails* I'm curious who the people who don't answer are too.
And btw my neighbor thinks the "we" trying to kill us is the "elite" (whatever wealthy people she thinks are plotting to kill us all and including Bill Gates ) and the US government I assume . I could be wrong but I'm more concerned about (left to center left) people who think they're environmentalists getting more of these laws passed
~ Dana
Sep 28 2024 12:26AM - Dan Miller
As I have said on my Climate Chat program several times, I guarantee that we will do SRM. When the s#!t really hits the fan in developed countries and the public demands action, the *only* approach that will have an impact on global warming in a relevant timeframe (to the politician) is SRM. Emissions reduction and CDR won’t be noticed for 30 years (if and when we get serious about them).
For those interested, I have a number of programs on SRM/geoengineering:
Solar Geoengineering/Sunlight Reflection Methods: Safe, Effective, Needed? w/ Doug MacMartin
https://youtube.com/live/_JBLMsXNmhs
Solar Geoengineering One Balloon at a Time? with Luke Iseman
https://youtube.com/live/A1k7dEKDYuM
youtube.com
https://youtube.com/live/A1k7dEKDYuM
Climate Intervention with Climate Scientist David Keith
https://youtube.com/live/zg46s1Fa3nY
youtube.com
https://youtube.com/live/zg46s1Fa3nY
Can Mirrors on the Ground Cool the Earth? w/ Dr. Ye Tao, Founder of MEER.org
https://youtube.com/live/39kBw4UiN0o
Can Mirrors on the Ground Cool the Earth? w/ Dr. Ye Tao, Founder of MEER.org
youtube.com
Restoring the Climate with Physicist & Author Peter Fiekowsky
https://youtube.com/live/XYX3nkoI3YY
Restoring the Climate with Physicist & Author Peter Fiekowsky
youtube.com
Climate Change and the Trolley Problem
https://youtube.com/live/sgs_tboPwvA
Climate Change and the Trolley Problem
youtube.com
Dan
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