The next NOAC meeting is: Monday 16th Sep (Aus: Tue 17th, 6am AEST) (2 emails 9/3/2024 to 9/5/2024)
HPAC
The next NOAC meeting is: Monday 16th Sep (Aus: Tue 17th, 6am AEST)Sep 3 2024 4:45AM - Clive Elsworth
All
You are warmly invited to our fortnightly NOAC meetings.
NOAC = Nature-based Ocean and Atmospheric Cooling.
If you arrive at the start, you can suggest a topic for discussion. You could:
· ask a question,
highlight an article or video,
challenge an assumption,
express an opinion,
make an announcement,
suggest a plan,
present something,
etc.
New participants are asked to give a very brief introduction.
We speak for 90 mins.
The next NOAC meeting is: Monday 16th Sep (Aus: Tue 17th, 6am AEST)
• 1pm PDT (USA)
• 4pm EDT (USA)
• 9pm BST (UK)
• 10pm CEST (France, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Switzerland)
• 6am Tue AEST (Australia)
Join Zoom Meeting: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/87105924845?pwd=dk1xNG94VmZPTkFlTURNcXlhNXBGUT09
Last Meeting, Mon Sep 2nd:
Rebecca Bishop said this was “a high-quality presentation”.
Franz Oeste explained the importance of life for stabilising the climate. For example, vegetation feeds microbes that weather the soil to extract minerals. When the vegetation rots down the minerals it releases (potash) represent alkalinity that runs off into the ocean, drawing down CO2. (For example, microbes produce compounds such as enterobactin
which “is a high affinity siderophore that acquires iron for microbial systems.”) This is likely a main reason why atmospheric CO2 has declined from the order of around 2000 ppm since the Devonian period 400 million years ago when trees evolved. Tree root systems reach down much further in soils than grasslands for example, and tropical forests are likely the main contributor of ocean alkalinity, where tree growth is intensive.
Brian explained how the copious amounts of calcium carbonate in the deep ocean represent a huge ‘chemical buffer’ that neutralises the carbonic acid produced when organic carbon (e.g. seaweed) sinks to the seabed and is metabolised by benthic life there. Seaweed can sink between 800 – 4000m per day, which means little carbonic acid is released on the way down.
Franz also explained how 2 billion years ago the evolution of cyanobacteria to split water to extract hydrogen – and release oxygen into the air – led to a large decrease of atmospheric methane, which likely led to some of the ‘snowball Earth’ events.
Bru Pearce later explained that since the 1800s the mass of Earth’s mammalian wildlife is estimated to have decreased from around 95% of total biomass to only 4% today.
Agenda
Clive – Drinking water proposal – would it work? (I should have said Persian Gulf, not Red Sea.)
Alf – How are the projects going?
Bru Pearce: - Envisionation – Biosphere restoration plan, Digital Asset: EmpathyCoin
Brian: - Climate Foundation, KelpCoin
Sev: Marine Biomass Consortium - Buoyant Flakes concept – FePSi: Iron, Phosphate, Silicate
Clive: Benign shipping aerosol produced by low energy plasma arc furnace
Rebecca – Rebrighten – Renewable energy for marine vessels for rebrightening, Social Acceptance of small-scale field trials, Marine biogenic aerosols.
Jon C - The blunt analogies useful for stating how GHG reduction alone is no real therapy for overheating.
Recording: https://youtu.be/Gcz7rGKs_Hw?t=957
Feel free to share this link with trusted friends and colleagues, but please do not post on social media or websites.
Also, see Transcript file attached. (ums and uhs removed).
Chat
21:03:17 From Jonathan Cole : the blunt analogys useful for stating how GHG reduction alone is no real therapy for over heating
21:08:48 From Manna Jo Greene : I'll be right back
21:14:25 From Jonathan Cole : other topic: the fact that people use more when the machines get more efficient
21:16:10 From Jonathan Cole : This phenomenon is known as the rebound effect or Jevons paradox.
21:28:08 From Dr Brian von Herzen : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seawater_greenhouse
21:35:44 From Jonathan Cole : Treating a Heart Attack with a Diet Plan: Relying solely on GHG reduction to cool the planet is like trying to treat a heart attack by starting a diet plan. While a healthier diet is beneficial in the long run, it does nothing to address the immediate crisis.
Using a Sponge to Stop a Flood: Reducing greenhouse gases is akin to using a sponge to stop a flood. The effort is commendable, but the scale and speed of the problem far outpace the solution's effectiveness.
Putting a Band-Aid on a Broken Bone: Addressing climate change by only cutting emissions is like putting a Band-Aid on a broken bone. It might cover the problem, but it doesn't heal the underlying issue quickly enough to prevent further damage.
Cooling a Boiling Pot with an Ice Cube: Attempting to cool the planet by reducing GHGs alone is like trying to cool a boiling pot of water with a single ice cube. The ice cube will eventually melt, but the pot will remain hot for a long time
21:36:42 From John Macdonald : There is a large olivine resource in New Guinea which could be mined to improve conditions of the GBR nearby.
21:40:59 From Jonathan Cole : Don Quixote Fighting Windmills: Attempting to resolve climate change solely through GHG reduction is akin to Don Quixote battling windmills, mistaking them for giants. The solution, though noble in intent, misinterprets the true nature of the challenge.
Nero Fiddling While Rome Burns: Focusing only on GHG reduction is like Nero allegedly playing the fiddle as Rome burned. The action taken is disconnected from addressing the immediate crisis and may distract from more urgent responses needed.
Using the Gordian Knot Approach: Trying to solve planetary overheating by reducing GHGs is like attempting to untangle the Gordian Knot by conventional means. Alexander the Great famously cut through the knot, suggesting that unconventional approaches may be required.
21:41:28 From Jonathan Cole : King Canute Commanding the Tide: Relying solely on GHG reduction mirrors King Canute's demonstration that he couldn't command the sea. It illustrates the futility of certain actions against the natural and complex forces at play.
The Emperor's New Clothes: Addressing only GHG emissions is reminiscent of the Emperor parading in invisible clothing. The focus on appearances rather than genuine solutions fails to address the real, underlying issues.
These analogies, drawn from historical and literary contexts, underscore the importance of aligning the type of solution with the nature of the problem, rather than just its scale.
21:49:16 From John Nissen : @Jonathan, these analogies are rather insulting to the advocates of emissions reduction. I suggest that we point out that there are two main sources of heating: (I) greenhouse gas and reduced thermal energy going into space; and (ii) retreat of snow and sea ice, reducing the albedo of the planet. The green movement has only addressed the former; the IPCC and climate community are focussed on the GHG side and ignored the albedo side. Our groups (NOAC, HPAC and PRAG) can point out that the albedo side needs to be addressed urgently, especially in the Arctic where tipping elements have already been activated.
21:49:49 From Jonathan Cole : "Ease Off the Gas: Cool the Planet with Clouds and Ice."
"Brake for the Future: Boost Clouds and Ice to Halt Climate Chaos."
"Slow Down and Cool Off: Press the Brake with Increased Cloud and Ice Cover."
"Shift Gears to Safety: Balance Emissions Reduction with Planetary Cooling."
21:56:25 From John Nissen : @Jonathan Cole, the Earth's energy imbalance has been investigated by the CERES satellite, with data on each side over the past 20 years. The thermal energy outgoing hasn't changed very much; but the outgoing shortwave radiation has reduced significantly, with a marked downturn in 2023.
22:03:54 From Rebecca Bishop - Gadigal lands : I’m happy to give an update on Rebrighten.org if there is time. ??
22:03:57 From Dr Brian von Herzen : https://www.climatefoundation.org/kelp-coin.html
22:04:05 From Dr Brian von Herzen : Reacted to I’m happy to give an... with "??"
22:05:39 From Jonathan Cole : Reacted to "I’m happy to give an..." with ??
22:12:18 From Jonathan Cole : Restoring the ocean to health.. BUOYANT FLAKES | by Sev clarke | Aug, 2024 | Medium
22:13:18 From Jonathan Cole : 5535Buoyant_flake_fertilization_rev.pdf (un.org)
22:14:18 From Sev Clarke : https://www.noac.info/ReferencesDetail.aspx
22:19:41 From Bru Pearce : Sorry I have to go and collect my wife - see you all next time.
22:22:06 From Jonathan Cole to Clive Elsworth(direct message) : can we get a update from Rebecca on Rebrighten?
22:26:03 From Jonathan Cole : Engaging the Audience's Imagination
Effective analogies often create vivid imagery that engages the audience's imagination. By painting a clear mental picture, analogies can make abstract ideas more tangible and compelling, which can be particularly persuasive in change communication.
22:29:39 From Jonathan Cole : disincentivize advise from doctor at hospital rather than rapid needed treatment.
22:30:44 From Jonathan Cole : sinking ship water into bottom, captain says can you help bail? no search for hole or action to mend hole.
22:31:26 From Jonathan Cole : tipping ship sinking point sign of a serious leak and little time
22:32:57 From Jonathan Cole : ghg reduction fine for thermal energy trying to leave but does nothing for helping short wave to exit via reflection, as it was before.
22:33:36 From Jonathan Cole : ir changes are measured as small, albedo changes measured as large and more significant
22:34:22 From Jonathan Cole : titanic, water from one area IR, vs water from another leak (short wave)
22:35:52 From John Macdonald : Actions speak louder than words
22:37:01 From Jonathan Cole : Analogies can help overcome resistance to new ideas by framing them in a context that is less threatening or more familiar. This can make the audience more open to considering the change, as the analogy provides a safe and relatable entry point into the discussion 3
22:39:39 From Jonathan Cole : Firefighting with Water, Not Just Prevention: Addressing climate change by only reducing emissions is like trying to prevent a forest fire by banning campfires while ignoring the blaze already raging. Direct cooling is akin to using water to douse the flames, providing immediate relief and preventing further destruction.
Cooling a Fever Before Treating the Cause: When a patient has a dangerously high fever, doctors first focus on bringing the temperature down before diagnosing the underlying illness. Similarly, direct cooling strategies, like increasing cloud cover and polar ice, are essential to stabilize the planet's climate before long-term solutions can take effect.
Stopping a Runaway Train: Imagine a train speeding towards a broken bridge. Reducing emissions is like slowing the train slightly, but direct cooling is the emergency brake that stops it in its tracks, preventing disaster. Immediate cooling measures are crucial to halt the moment of climate change.
Fireflies
During the recent Project Update and Strategy Discussion meeting, participants provided updates on various climate initiatives, focusing on a proposal for drinking water production and the development of solar-powered greenhouses aimed at enhancing water collection in the Middle East, which highlighted the role of plants in oxygen generation. The effectiveness of ocean fertilization methods was explored, along with the impact of macroalgae on carbon sequestration, featuring insights from Sev Clarke regarding the ocean's biological pump. The meeting also covered cryptocurrency initiatives, particularly the launch of the empathy coin to support biosphere restoration and the introduction of kelp coin. Additionally, updates on the Re-Brighton Project underscored the need for funding renewable energy solutions for marine vessels, marine cloud re-brightening, and fostering social acceptance for experimental trials. Key action items included launching a website for the empathy coin project and developing a memorandum of understanding for the Blue Cooling Initiative.
Contact Details and Past Meetings
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https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UpmRrXrMtOlXEpqEuFS8db_NpFhTpM2_/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=114954647783797253223&rtpof=true&sd=true
NOAC website: https://noac.info/Home.aspx
Previous meeting
Agenda
Agenda Greg Slater: MEER Sierra Leone
Robert Tulip: TED Parsons Paper on Non Use Agreement
Rebecca Bishop: Just Have A Think – Solar Technology for Desalination Plants
Alf Thome: Sev Clarke video on ice shields
Chris Vivian: Nature Report ICJ on Country Responsibilities for Climate Change
Chris Vivian: Paper on Earth System Tipping Points Research Agenda
Robert Tulip: Plans for COP 29
Recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohf3igmYIRw&t=417s
Feel free to share this link with trusted friends and colleagues, but please do not post on social media or websites.
Also, see Transcript file attached. (ums and uhs removed).
Send us new people: Who else should be invited?
Unsubscribe: Let me know, and I’ll take you off the HPAC google group.
Clive Elsworth
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Sep 5 2024 4:31PM - Ron Baiman
Dear Clive et al.
Just viewed the recording - excellent meeting as usual! (I finally finished proofing the "bloody" (if I may use a Britishism) HPAC papers so hopefully will be able to go back to actually attending in future! )
One political economic comment.
Though markets can be very useful, excessive financial speculation is not. I would suggest restricting the speculative use of any well-meaning "digital security" to make it a "environmentally and socially beneficial" savings and/or real (not speculative) investment opportunity.
Steve Keen (well-known heterodox economist who has also produced one of the most trenchant critiques of Nordhaus and followers Neoclassical economics climate modeling - now finally being exposed also within Neoclassical economics: https://podcasts.apple.com/my/podcast/groundbreaking-economic-study-suggests-greater-climate/id1469270123?i=1000655639817)
offers a "Jubilee Shares" proposal to limit stock speculation (stock and other forms of speculation is 99% of what current financial markets do) that could also be applied to digital currencies on p. 27 of this: https://keenomics.s3.amazonaws.com/debtdeflation_media/2012/01/TheDebtwatchManifesto.pdf
:
" A share bought in an IPO or rights offer would last forever (for as long as the company exists) as now with all the rights it currently confers. It could be sold once onto the secondary market with all the same privileges. But on its next sale it would have a lifespan of 50 years, at which point it would
terminate."
Needless to say, late capitalist rentierism (income and wealth derived exclusively from property claims and speculation on these claims) is in fact the major source of the obscene late capitalist economic and political inequality that is also a key reason why we are unable to speedily effect the massive transfers of financing and technology from rich to poor countries and individual necessary for a speedy transition to a green economy. (If interested in late-capitalist "Rentierism" and its impacts, I have written a number of papers on this that I can send.)
Money is actually a public good not a private commodity and should be treated as such (as nations belatedly recognized) that can be used for public benefit. Enclosed is a paper on this in reference to the climate crisis that I will share. ??.
But again, very encouraging to hear of all the excellent work being done to try to save our "sinking ship"!
Best,
Ron
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